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Chuck and I don't always agree. However, I feel like he's pretty much iterated every single one of my thoughts on the Orville's shortcomings. They're not the flaws you'd think would be the one to complain about like the fact that it's too crass or "Family Guy in Space" (its not). Its the fact that is a mixture that theoretically could work, like peanut butter and jelly, but the portions are just not right in the show.

Probably because the people involved do not want the same things from it.

Fox wanted Family Guy in Space and a comedy that they could ride on Seth's past successes.

Seth wants to do straight up Star Trek so that season 2 kept getting less and less funny and more dramatic.

I just wanted Galaxy Quest or The Office in Space. A slice of life comedy.

No one is quite getting what they want.

Edit:

And in addition, Chuck's joke about how Alara was way too young for the cast becomes even more cringe knowing she and Seth were together.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:56 am Chuck and I don't always agree. However, I feel like he's pretty much iterated every single one of my thoughts on the Orville's shortcomings. They're not the flaws you'd think would be the one to complain about like the fact that it's too crass or "Family Guy in Space" (its not). Its the fact that is a mixture that theoretically could work, like peanut butter and jelly, but the portions are just not right in the show.

Probably because the people involved do not want the same things from it.

Fox wanted Family Guy in Space and a comedy that they could ride on Seth's past successes.

Seth wants to do straight up Star Trek so that season 2 kept getting less and less funny and more dramatic.

I just wanted Galaxy Quest or The Office in Space. A slice of life comedy.

No one is quite getting what they want.

Edit:

And in addition, Chuck's joke about how Alara was way too young for the cast becomes even more cringe knowing she and Seth were together.

There is a season 3 in production which by your Star Trek arguments means it must also be a blinding success so...

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:35 am There is a season 3 in production which by your Star Trek arguments means it must also be a blinding success so...

You see, where we differ can be perfectly illustrated here. Thank you for that opportunity.

I'm AWARE people like the Orville and can acknowledge it was a success.

It just wasn't for me.

I'm fine going against the tide. I'll even go so far as to say most of its fans prefer it to be more serious while I hate that direction.

I will say I don't share Chuck's aversion to Mercer as the Captain and Seth MacFarlane choosing to put himself in the captain's chair for his vanity project. I think he's actually one of the show's stronger actors and perfectly suited for the Steve Guttenberg "Straight Man" role that does work in the show. If he was allowed to just be the Steve Carell of the Office in Space, I think the show would have managed to keep the majority of my interest throughout.

Really, I only think that Mercer has two flaws as a character:

1. The fucking Kelly/Mercer story just does not land at at all. Maybe it's because we've had so many horrifying office stories regarding harrassment and bosses creeping on their subordinates but when it's not outright cringe, it's just pathetic. I don't WANT Kelly and Mercer together and it makes both characters look worse that they keep trying to put them together.

Its also absolutely central to a huge number of plotlines and does not go anywhere.

2. I don't buy Seth MacFarlane in heroic action scenes and drama. I think he's much-much better at dealing with the quirky oddball misfits and their issues. Part of why I prefer the comedy elements is that I think it's much more in Seth's wheelhouse. The whole "dance off" thing is much more my humor than him trying to save humanity from robot genocide.

Seth MacFarlane's humor is hit and miss. Most of his jokes work better in a sorter animated format, since in live-action things are different, not to mention the style of Family Guy and similar comedies like American Dad or even South Park doesn't always translate well in other genres.

Which is why I like that the later episodes rely less on jokes and instead try to focus more coherent stories.

I found it funny enough. It is a comedy-drama, it is to SFF what New Tricks is to cop shows. And it had to be, the comedy part is what kept CBS-Paramount from suing it for being too close to Trek. Anyway, like New Tricks, ORV got more serious over time while still keeping the upbeat lightheartedness inherent in it. The only real clunker of the first season was the most SFF one with the alien zoo. I think that one just came too early in the season though. Put it behind the one where Dr. Finn gets lost on the Walking Dead planet, once we've got to know the characters more and it fits better.

This episode was pretty good though, I enjoyed it. Even the ejaculate joke.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:01 pm I found it funny enough. It is a comedy-drama, it is to SFF what New Tricks is to cop shows. And it had to be, the comedy part is what kept CBS-Paramount from suing it for being too close to Trek. Anyway, like New Tricks, ORV got more serious over time while still keeping the upbeat lightheartedness inherent in it. The only real clunker of the first season was the most SFF one with the alien zoo. I think that one just came too early in the season though. Put it behind the one where Dr. Finn gets lost on the Walking Dead planet, once we've got to know the characters more and it fits better.

This episode was pretty good though, I enjoyed it. Even the ejaculate joke.

Actually, New Tricks is a pretty typical cop show for the market it was created in. The common tropes in a lot of UK cop shows are very different than in US ones, even in the ones that try to be most like their US counterparts.

I assure you, I have watched a lot of our cop shows. From The Bill all the way to Endeavour. New Tricks is very much more light hearted than most of them.

I love the show, in general. I still have issues and like some episodes more than others, but overall I quite like it and wish we'd get more of it than I know we're going to get (I would not be at all surprised if S3 was the end). I do think that some of the humor is a little forced at times, especially earlier on. But many of the jokes do land for me. I like the direction it took of taking itself more seriously. There's still humor in there but it acts as a compliment to the drama and to make the characters feel a little more real and not as stiff as Starfleet characters can be sometimes. They're not the best but they make it work.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:01 pmThe only real clunker of the first season was the most SFF one with the alien zoo.

Wait, you're telling me the "eh, rape is no big deal" episode with the rapey blue guy wasn't a clunker?! That thing was worse than Code of Honor.