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I think my biggest statement about Batman Beyond: Rebirth is the fact that it occurs to me it's probably the best cyberpunk media that has been released in a very long time and certainly better than the actual Cyberpunk 2077 game.

It's funny how Chuck doesn't even mention the cyberpunk element.

And kudos for the developers coming up with a way to thread the needle of, "How can you make Batman retire without killing him?" Which is a question a lot of shows (Birds of Prey, Titans, Batwoman) struggle with and come up with utterly unsatisfying answers.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:39 pm I think my biggest statement about Batman Beyond: Rebirth is the fact that it occurs to me it's probably the best cyberpunk media that has been released in a very long time and certainly better than the actual Cyberpunk 2077 game.

It's funny how Chuck doesn't even mention the cyberpunk element.

And kudos for the developers coming up with a way to thread the needle of, "How can you make Batman retire without killing him?" Which is a question a lot of shows (Birds of Prey, Titans, Batwoman) struggle with and come up with utterly unsatisfying answers.

I haven't seen any of BoP or Titans, beyond the F--- Batman meme, but with Batwoman they needed to remove Batman in a way that they didn't have to have the character looking over the cast's shoulders. That is something that BB obviously didn't need to worry about, in fact they wanted Bruce looking over the new Batman's shoulder, not to mention living in his ear, so that was one challenge BW faced that BB didn't. Combine that with the CW's desire to have BW set in Gotham instead of another city, and to preserve the opportunity of using the Batfamily Rogue's Gallery and ancillary characters, and I think the show did the best they could with the hand it was dealt.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:59 pm
I haven't seen any of BoP or Titans, beyond the F--- Batman meme, but with Batwoman they needed to remove Batman in a way that they didn't have to have the character looking over the cast's shoulders. That is something that BB obviously didn't need to worry about, in fact they wanted Bruce looking over the new Batman's shoulder, not to mention living in his ear, so that was one challenge BW faced that BB didn't. Combine that with the CW's desire to have BW set in Gotham instead of another city, and to preserve the opportunity of using the Batfamily Rogue's Gallery and ancillary characters, and I think the show did the best they could with the hand it was dealt.

I think that would be a mistake because "Batman killed the Joker and left Gotham in the hands of a armed paramilitary organization" is a pretty shitty ending to Bruce Wayne's story. I think something more like Batman Beyond would be better.

Note: I LIKE Batwoman.

I also would have accepted, "Batman was badly beaten by Bane and is in recovery." AND "A mook died because of Batman's beatings and he's in seclusion despite it being an accident."

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:39 pm I think my biggest statement about Batman Beyond: Rebirth is the fact that it occurs to me it's probably the best cyberpunk media that has been released in a very long time and certainly better than the actual Cyberpunk 2077 game.

They're both different takes on the genre/setting, and do very well at their individual perspectives on it. I happen to love CP2077 and found it to be incredible in the immersion and world-building (both what they inherited and how they tailored it for a modern audience). Batman Beyond does well in that regard too, especially given the constraints.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:10 pm

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:59 pm
I haven't seen any of BoP or Titans, beyond the F--- Batman meme, but with Batwoman they needed to remove Batman in a way that they didn't have to have the character looking over the cast's shoulders. That is something that BB obviously didn't need to worry about, in fact they wanted Bruce looking over the new Batman's shoulder, not to mention living in his ear, so that was one challenge BW faced that BB didn't. Combine that with the CW's desire to have BW set in Gotham instead of another city, and to preserve the opportunity of using the Batfamily Rogue's Gallery and ancillary characters, and I think the show did the best they could with the hand it was dealt.

I think that would be a mistake because "Batman killed the Joker and left Gotham in the hands of a armed paramilitary organization" is a pretty shitty ending to Bruce Wayne's story. I think something more like Batman Beyond would be better.

Note: I LIKE Batwoman.

I also would have accepted, "Batman was badly beaten by Bane and is in recovery." AND "A mook died because of Batman's beatings and he's in seclusion despite it being an accident."

My own preference would be "He got accidentally kidnapped by drunk time travellers, they are trying to work out how to get him back but...". There is your Batwoman/Legends of Tomorrow crossover. Followed up with, they did work out how to get him back, but he saw his Gotham was looked after by BW, and decided to stay in an alternate universe they accidentally blundered into, because its Gotham was an even worse mess and there was no Batman there. If the CW is going to have its own expanded universe, they oughta have used it better.

Batman Beyond was one of the best animated series ever. I like how they gave Terry his own villains to fight with only Mr. Freeze and later on the Joker to return. Bane would make an appearance but (spoilers), wouldn't fight Terry.

Chuck briefly brought up the topic of Batman's compassion and I think that's something that's basically disappeared over the past few decades, his compassion.

Sure we've seen glimpses of it both in the comics and the DCAU, but when you look at the whole of it, he's got a pretty miserable existence and he's spread that wittingly, and unwittingly to those around him. In the context of this series: all of his former sidekicks outright dislike him, he's cut himself off from the League, his old colleague Lucius Fox has left Wayne Enterprise to start his own company and he never managed to make things work with Catwoman or Wonder Woman or any of his other relationships, And while he's willing to admit to Diana that he has issues, he's not really willing to do anything about those issues. Instead he throws himself into one mission after the other and broods because he's of the mind that other heroes don't take crime fighting as serious as he does.

Combine that with his distrustful nature, his "my way or the highway" attitude and inability to switch off and I honestly think that this is the most appropriate fate for Batman, living alone and bitter in stately Wayne Manor.

We may joke about the overall campiness of the Adam West era of Batman, but it is a little disconcerting that that incarnation of the character is probably the most mentally sound version.

stellar_coyote wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:10 am Chuck briefly brought up the topic of Batman's compassion and I think that's something that's basically disappeared over the past few decades, his compassion.

Sure we've seen glimpses of it both in the comics and the DCAU, but when you look at the whole of it, he's got a pretty miserable existence and he's spread that wittingly, and unwittingly to those around him. In the context of this series: all of his former sidekicks outright dislike him, he's cut himself off from the League, his old colleague Lucius Fox has left Wayne Enterprise to start his own company and he never managed to make things work with Catwoman or Wonder Woman or any of his other relationships, And while he's willing to admit to Diana that he has issues, he's not really willing to do anything about those issues. Instead he throws himself into one mission after the other and broods because he's of the mind that other heroes don't take crime fighting as serious as he does.

Combine that with his distrustful nature, his "my way or the highway" attitude and inability to switch off and I honestly think that this is the most appropriate fate for Batman, living alone and bitter in stately Wayne Manor.

We may joke about the overall campiness of the Adam West era of Batman, but it is a little disconcerting that that incarnation of the character is probably the most mentally sound version.

DCAU does the best of all the characters. In Justice League and the 52 movie with Darkseid we see Batman has respect for Flash. JL admires Flash for the compassion he has for his own Rogues gallery. To the point he visits his foes in treatment and sees they get their medications. Orion is the one to not get how well adjusted and a real hero Flash is.
In the movie he meets Flash and shakes his hand and says he does commendable work.
In Batman's own series you see where he and Grayson have issues. But he was keeping him out of an investigation so he would not endup like Bruce. A Superman episode tells you why he is so committed to the mission. Bruce went missing and Gotham went from bad to worse. His protege's unable to handle things without him. It took Superman pretending to be Batman to calm things and restore them. Then Supes comments to Bruce in bed recovering that for a guy that claims to be a loner. He surrounds himself with great partners.

Why is Bruce and the bat family so bitter? It is not simply Bruce is cold. Bruce is locked into the society demand that men be stoic. To the point he has trouble expressing his concern and pain to others. Batman is/was not a cure for Gotham. He was a super white cell. Stopping the diseases and infections better than the other cells (the police). But the infections never stopped coming. There was never immunity. When Batman left the scene what happened to Gotham? Look at the street gangs like the Jokers. Running rampant with no sign of the police to even slow them down. Barbara hates Terry because she went from costumed vigilante to trying to repair things from the inside. But the only competence ever shown in her own forces was hunting the new Batman with her directly at the helm. Gotham needs a Batman to keep the major forces in check. And Bruce can't do it any longer.

Now there are many episodes ahead. Terry and Bruce have differences. A 'ghost' episode where Bruce dismisses the supernatural. "I've met ghosts. This feels too high school." That is not talking down, that is experience. Terry falls for 10, Bruce tells him about Selina Kyle. As much as they talk about how cold and brooding Bruce is. He does have empathy, and he does understand. If anything Bruce's problem is he understands too well. He can't turn it off just to have fun.

I'm gonna go beyond the source material here and speculate; that when Bruce's parents died, someone told him he had to be strong, and not fall apart, to be tough and do his father proud. And he was, depending on the comic and series, somewhere between eight or eleven years old. And that fucked him up mightily. Just like it fucks up real kids who suffer a parental death, and are told to be strong and not fall apart. It is the worst thing you can say to a kid who has just lost a parent, it doesn't save the remains of their childhood, it wipes it out. You tell a child to become and act like an adult, at an age they can't possibly comprehend what that entails, and at best you are setting them up for therapy in twenty years, at worst, you've fucked up their ability to relate to peers for the rest of their life. I'd say ask me how I know, but I think you can probably guess.

Batman Beyond was the best Spiderman cartoon ever done until Spectacular Spiderman came along.