Film: The Day After

[clearspira]

Well... this is timely. As relevant now as it was then.

Genuine debate time: is there any greater proof that mutually assured destruction works then the fact that Ukraine gave up their nukes and now they are being invaded by a nuclear power? Is there any greater proof that mutually assured destruction works then the fact that the West is LETTING it happen because we are scared of nuclear war?

As a bit of an Ancient Greece buff I am also reminded of the Melian dialogue from some 3000 years ago and how it relates to the Ukraine conflict. The full text can be found on Google but it can be succinctly surmised as Athens opening up a peace negotiation with the phrase: ''the strong do what they like and the weak have to accept it. This is the order of things.''

Nukes are the ultimate equaliser. Beyond swords, guns, jets or the pen.

[CrypticMirror]

Well... this is timely. As relevant now as it was then.

Genuine debate time: is there any greater proof that mutually assured destruction works then the fact that Ukraine gave up their nukes and now they are being invaded by a nuclear power? Is there any greater proof that mutually assured destruction works then the fact that the West is LETTING it happen because we are scared of nuclear war?

Sure. The West invading Iraq and toppling Gaddafi in Libya once we were sure they had both disposed of their WMDs. Not that I'm defending either of the bastards in charge of those countries, but Gaddafi especially was promised that if he gave up his nuclear ambitions post-Iraq '03 then we'd welcome him back to the international table and not seek regime change as a reward. He did, and look what happened. That is why North Korea and Iran, and Israel, and all the other marginal nuclear states, are never going to give up theirs. Whether nuclear, biological, or extreme chemicals, they are keeping them as deterrents against us. Ukraine is only notable because it isn't the Global West steamrolling them, but a traditional enemy.

[clearspira]

BTW, that ''hoarding toilet paper'' joke?

*Chef's kiss*

What does it say about 2022 that what was once parody is now stark, damning reality? Nostalgia is a dangerous thing, but I cannot get away from the truth: I was enjoying life more a decade ago than I am today. If you had told me in 2012 that by 2022 we would have a worldwide plague, Brexit, people panic buying loo roll, the guy from the Apprentice would be president, protestors would be storming the capitol building, months of race riots and the Cold War would be back, I think I would have said ''nah, bro.''

Historians are not going to look back on our time fondly.

[Scififan]

Reminds me of a quote from Futurama; "He's just some poor kid from the stupid age".

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I was enjoying life more a decade ago than I am today. If you had told me in 2012 that by 2022 we would have a worldwide plague, Brexit, people panic buying loo roll, the guy from the Apprentice would be president, protestors would be storming the capitol building, months of race riots and the Cold War would be back, I think I would have said ''nah, bro.''

Historians are not going to look back on our time fondly.

For once, I have a hard time disagreeing with you. =/ Shit's tough.

Let's hope this video stays mildly relevant instead of being prescient.

[pilight]

Hey, that was me that mentioned Nuclear War the card game on Chuck's Twitter!

[Riedquat]

Well I can't argue with the timeliness but I'm giving this review a miss, the situation is stressing me out enough as it is to the point where I've gone for the "try not to look at the news" option.

[Madner Kami]

Since three days now, I am trying to formulate a post that accurately adressed some of the points being made in the video, how it touched me and helped change my perspective (e.g. I stopped advocating for a no fly zone), while strenghtening my resolve in other regards. What each of these posts began with was, adressing the idea of "taking it up to my own politicians" and all of those posts ended up as complex thought-pieces that I had trouble to unravel myself, leading to deleting them over and over again, so I'll keep my thoughts simple in an attempt to say anything at all and getting out of my deadlock:

The idea that I shouldn't try to change the situation by calling Russians to revolt against Putin, but rather by me revolting against my politicians in order to prevent escalation is strikingly foolish in my opinion. Now I do not want to consider Putin as irrational, but what strikes me as a simple fact is, that we can not back down to his threats with nuclear war for the precise reason that Putin and arguably Russia, is a bully by nature. We are very much in the exact some situation that Chamberlain and Europe as a whole were in the 1930s. In an effort to placate german sentiments and prevent an escalation, Europe backed down and it kept backing down until it was forced into a war regardless of the initial sentiments and wishes. Putin is giving me increasingly the vibe of Hitler. He has a goal. He as stated it out loud for everyone to see. He will go there, no matter what. Me advocating for my politicians to de-arm the nuclear option is none, because we'd be left standing without pants, against an opposition that can threaten us with nuclear war without a fear of retaliation and, moreso, because he can not win a conventional war and yet seems to have the resolve to start one (and arguably having created a self-fullfilling prophecy, because he can not back down from the narrative he has spun without being swept out of his position of power), forces himself into the nuclear option.

This strikes me as foolish. Both parties can be completely rational, but, it doesn't mean that both parties are working in the same framework. If we give up the option of shaping the common or forcing a comming framework, we will loose everything.

[tacomoney]

Been meaning to ask this for a while and the repost seems a good a time as any.
In the intro what is the name of that animation with the US and USSR building up nukes over decades until Reagan or Gorbachov are sitting on the pile scared to death?
Curious to see it in full.

[SFDebris]

Since three days now, I am trying to formulate a post that accurately adressed some of the points being made in the video, how it touched me and helped change my perspective (e.g. I stopped advocating for a no fly zone), while strenghtening my resolve in other regards. What each of these posts began with was, adressing the idea of "taking it up to my own politicians" and all of those posts ended up as complex thought-pieces that I had trouble to unravel myself, leading to deleting them over and over again, so I'll keep my thoughts simple in an attempt to say anything at all and getting out of my deadlock:

The idea that I shouldn't try to change the situation by calling Russians to revolt against Putin, but rather by me revolting against my politicians in order to prevent escalation is strikingly foolish in my opinion. Now I do not want to consider Putin as irrational, but what strikes me as a simple fact is, that we can not back down to his threats with nuclear war for the precise reason that Putin and arguably Russia, is a bully by nature. We are very much in the exact some situation that Chamberlain and Europe as a whole were in the 1930s. In an effort to placate german sentiments and prevent an escalation, Europe backed down and it kept backing down until it was forced into a war regardless of the initial sentiments and wishes. Putin is giving me increasingly the vibe of Hitler. He has a goal. He as stated it out loud for everyone to see. He will go there, no matter what. Me advocating for my politicians to de-arm the nuclear option is none, because we'd be left standing without pants, against an opposition that can threaten us with nuclear war without a fear of retaliation and, moreso, because he can not win a conventional war and yet seems to have the resolve to start one (and arguably having created a self-fullfilling prophecy, because he can not back down from the narrative he has spun without being swept out of his position of power), forces himself into the nuclear option.

This strikes me as foolish. Both parties can be completely rational, but, it doesn't mean that both parties are working in the same framework. If we give up the option of shaping the common or forcing a comming framework, we will loose everything.

Whoa whoa whoa, that isn't what I was suggesting! I was suggesting asking our leaders to work towards international nuclear disarmament, so that one rogue state decides, when its mad ambitions to dominate the world fail, to destroy the world, that they can't. My point in comparing to Russia was because I've seen people saying the Russian people aren't doing enough in their police state nation, when those of us in free societies do nothing because we've disregarded the threat of nuclear weapons.

Man, I'm calling for nuclear disarmament, drive an electric car, and look like the Pondering My Orb guy, I didn't think I'd grow up to be a hippie.