Sfdebris.net

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t265.php

In some ways, this episode is more infuriating to me than Dear Doctor. The latter was awful, and the self congratulations the story has at its reprehensible conclusion is absurd. But it was season 1 Enterprise, and Archer himself was so badly written in the first half of the series that it sadly doesn't feel all that out of character for his worldview.

TNG on the other hand had really developed the crew to being engaging and fairly likable people. To see them reduced to the kind of stubborn self-righteousness was not only a regression to the dubious season 1/2 characterization that Picard had largely grown out of, it also was a disappointing sign that the PD dogmatism was going to be embraced even further, which Voyager and Enterprise bore out.

Trek as a franchise wouldn't really bottom out till the early aughts, but stuff like this foreshadowed a lot of the problems future ST stories would suffer from.

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t265.php

God, but I hate this episode. It is one of the few pre-reboot Trek episodes I'd happily eject from the entire canon. It is the worst of the worst of the worst to me. It is bad, it is boring, it commits character assassination to create its story, and it is not even about the main characters who are just basically living props for the Worf's brother story. It is worse than Threshold, and even Profit and Lace. That is how little I think of it.

Could it be saved? I suppose it could have some depth and complexity added to it. Take that one line from the bard about how all they were is lost. Actually make them deeply religious, show them with one of those belief structures tied to the land, have them know the end is nigh, have that be the point of contention, that if they know the end is nigh and believe that being translocated in some way will rob them of all that they are, do we have the right to interfere; introduce Worf's brother's little tribal baby right at the start so we can see his real motives for "saving" them being just selfishness too. There, now you have an episode with some teeth in it. Maybe even have one of those visiting alien ambassadors from a culture that was observed back in what would become the Archer era where the early Starfleet observed a catastrophe but did not interfere, have them start demanding to know why these guys are getting saved and not the people on his world. Show that there are wider consequences too.

Or, don't have them tribal. Have it be an early Rome or Minoan level actual civilisation, multiple civilisations, thousands of people, maybe even millions scattered across the planet. Who do we save, what criteria is used, and then introduce the baby that Worf's brother is having with a local, use that to show why he wants these people but is willing to ignore others. Put some fight into it.

Or. It is a two planet system. Planet Two is facing the same phenomena in a few years, but here is the kicker, they are more advanced, early 21stC level, not enough to have spaceflight to trigger first contact, but advanced enough that their telescopes and maybe even early space probes can see what is going on. And they have a technobabble-elementbabble potential solution they could use to save themselves, but they need to see what happens on Planet One first. And if they get sidetracked wondering why this well documented tribe suddenly vanished, or see anything strange, then they might get sidetracked down that rabbithole and lead to their own destruction.

There are a bunch of scenarios that could add complexity and debate to the issue. Not this overly simplistic tosh.

As for the PD, I can see it for stuff like local level events. Like the Thera eruption, or Pompeii, not interfering even if it could cause death. Because seeing those events was how past cultures grew. We learned so much, and are still learning so much, about volcanology from the excavations of Pompeii and Herculaneum, so yes, I can understand standing by for those. How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life, but also the people may be changed by the knowledge but it is better than exterminating them. Ugh, this episode, I just can't.

Ah Homeward, the ultimate Prime Directive episode. I knew there'd be rants and I looked forward to them. Only 6 minutes in and yeah, he is explaining what the PD is SUPPOSED to be! The show points this out. And our main characters make up BS excuses to watch the world burn. So gross.

Now I do think his original plan is bad. If they set up this bubble, they would have to babysit this planet for the rest of time to ensure it kept working and that the people stayed where they were supposed to. How do you keep them in that bubble forever without fundamentally affecting them? The alternative, moving them, is a much better plan and I guess that makes sense. He knew they wouldn't go for the better plan anyway so doesn't want to give it away so they could stop him.

I love Nikolai and he really helps buoy up the episode. But Chuck's right that it is a mess with many of our main characters acting like assholes because of the PD.

It's a frustrating episode because there are aspects I like but the terrible takes by main characters, especially Picard, suck. Like, that scene with Vorin. Suddenly Vorin was acting like Picard was for some weird reason and Picard was making the points Nikolai was! Without a hint of self-awareness.

Sir Will wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:13 pm

Now I do think his original plan is bad. If they set up this bubble, they would have to babysit this planet for the rest of time to ensure it kept working and that the people stayed where they were supposed to. How do you keep them in that bubble forever without fundamentally affecting them?

Do you want Ocampa? Because that's how you get Ocampa.

lol, indeed. Seriously, they don't stand a chance without the Caretaker. The Kazon enslaving them is their best option once they run out of power/water.

Sir Will wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:13 pmNow I do think his original plan is bad. If they set up this bubble, they would have to babysit this planet for the rest of time to ensure it kept working and that the people stayed where they were supposed to. How do you keep them in that bubble forever without fundamentally affecting them?

That was obviously unworkable. How would they sustain themselves? Are they going to grow crops in their cave? How would Nikolai explain the force field holding them in this one small area?

The PD, despite the high minded rhetoric, is mostly to keep the Federation from getting stuck in the political tar baby of every backwards planet they come across.

MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:02 pmTo see them reduced to the kind of stubborn self-righteousness was not only a regression to the dubious season 1/2 characterization that Picard had largely grown out of, it also was a disappointing sign that the PD dogmatism was going to be embraced even further, which Voyager and Enterprise bore out.

I disagree completely. The Prime Directive means no interference, period. If the Federation isn't going to play god, it's not going to play god - you can't pick and choose when interference is permissible and when it's unacceptable.

That race was doomed. It would have been doomed if the Federation didn't exist. So they get the destiny the universe gave them. It's not the Federation's place to determine which species live and which species die, or which tragedies a primitive species undergoes and which ones it doesn't.

The episode with the little girl with the subspace radio was complex: they'd inadvertently broken the Prime Directive already, they could intervene without letting the race know the Federation existed, and they erased the little girl's memory. Even then, it was a betrayal of the Federation's ideals because they couldn't bring themselves to make the hard decision.

I remember in the second episode of the Picard tv series, when Picard goes to Starfleet HQ to ask for a ship and the admiral tells him to fuck off. There's a very telling moment when the two of them are arguing about the decision to abandon Starfleet's plan to evacuate Romulus and Picard declares "The Federation does not get to decide if a species lives or dies!" Given episodes like this, I'm surprised the admiral didn't just stare at him for a moment before bursting into hysterical laughter at his delusional hypocrisy...

Frustration wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:20 pm

MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:02 pmTo see them reduced to the kind of stubborn self-righteousness was not only a regression to the dubious season 1/2 characterization that Picard had largely grown out of, it also was a disappointing sign that the PD dogmatism was going to be embraced even further, which Voyager and Enterprise bore out.

I disagree completely. The Prime Directive means no interference, period. If the Federation isn't going to play god, it's not going to play god - you can't pick and choose when interference is permissible and when it's unacceptable.

That race was doomed. It would have been doomed if the Federation didn't exist. So they get the destiny the universe gave them. It's not the Federation's place to determine which species live and which species die, or which tragedies a primitive species undergoes and which ones it doesn't.

The old "let a drowning person drown" argument. If the Prime DIrective means no interference, period, then it's a disgusting, obnoxious piece of dogma and those who blindly stick to it need to be condemned for being the uncaring mindless zealots that they are.

Sometimes you might be able to argue that letting a civilisation die is the least bad choice, a necessary evil, if there's just no way you could support stopping happening in every case you encounter. To act as if that's a positive, good decision, fundamentally right, whenever you encounter it, is about as vile as anything imaginable.

I've no actual recollection of having ever seen this episode, thank goodness.

Frustration wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:20 pm

MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:02 pmTo see them reduced to the kind of stubborn self-righteousness was not only a regression to the dubious season 1/2 characterization that Picard had largely grown out of, it also was a disappointing sign that the PD dogmatism was going to be embraced even further, which Voyager and Enterprise bore out.

I disagree completely. The Prime Directive means no interference, period. If the Federation isn't going to play god, it's not going to play god - you can't pick and choose when interference is permissible and when it's unacceptable.

That race was doomed. It would have been doomed if the Federation didn't exist. So they get the destiny the universe gave them. It's not the Federation's place to determine which species live and which species die, or which tragedies a primitive species undergoes and which ones it doesn't.

Well I mean Trek had episodes prior to this that did exactly that. For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky:

SPOCK: Captain, informing these people they're on a ship may be in violation of the Prime Directive of Starfleet Command.
KIRK: No. The people of Yonada may be changed by the knowledge, but it's better than exterminating them.
SPOCK: Logical, Captain.

TOS in general presented the Prime Directive as a fine concept that could be broken in certain circumstances, and seemed to acknowledge there was a difference between outright exploitation or control of governments vs interference to save lives. The idea that "well these people are going to die out thanks to natural circumstances so, there's nothing we can do" seems categorically rejected by the aforementioned episode or the Paradise Syndrome which has the Enterprise saving a planet from a meteor.

And while maybe this could be dismissed as that being how the PD was interpreted then vs how it was in the 24th century, episodes like Justice have Picard and company interacting with (by all accounts) a non-warp capable species, revealing themselves as off-worlders, and directly interfering with it to save Wesley. So even within the context of TNG, the show is certainly selective in its rigid application of this. And "don't intervene to save the alien culture from extinction, but do so to save one of your own" seems like a remarkably self serving philosophy for this show to put forth.