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Winter wrote:. Amon, Vaatu, Zaheer and Kuvira are some of the best villains in the series and the themes being explored are just as fascinating as the ones in TLOA.

I was somewhat disappointed in Kuvira. She had the potential to be the greatest villain in the series because, fundamentally, not only was her end goal understandable, she went about it arguably the only way possible. But then they made more more mustache-twirly.

What that season really needed was a flashback episode where we see Kuvira when she initially goes to try and put the Earth Kingdom back together. She goes in with the best of intentions but, gee whilikers, trying to stabilize an entire nation that is going through major political and economic upheaval is just really difficult. We need to see her begin to make greater and greater concessions to pragmatism and have the road to hell paved with her good intentions until she eventually ends up as an autocrat who bitterly opposes some useless fop taking control who will no doubt ruin the country she sacrificed so much to put back together again. When Kuvira gets the message that said fop has been dictated to become the new leader -- by the same people who didn't lift a finger to help during the crisis, it should be just as anger inducing and devastating to the audience as to Kuvira herself.

Basically, the real villain of the series should've been Suyin Beifong. She's never called on any of her bullshit, except her absentee-ism with regards to the Earth Kingdom by Kuvira (who is not depicted in the best of light at that point).

Yeah Su really was the worst. Kuvira suffered from the fact the each season needed to have a few more episodes to really wrap things up in a way that didn't feel rushed. They may not have needed the full 20 like ATLA has but two or three more for each season would have really done a lot.

Yeah the show really dropped the ball when it came to trying to make Suyin out to be the hero. It would have made more sense to have Sue not going out to help te Earth Kingdom because she is afraid of there being more traitors in her city so she has a actual reason for not wanting to leave her city. Which leads to her suggesting Kuvira who takes the offer and like with the show proper Kuvira does start off doing this because it is the right thing to do but as time goes on she takes her ideas to far and turns villain. This gives Sue a reason to be so angry at Kuvira as she trusted her to do what was right and instead she has betrayed her trust. Instead Sue refuses to help because of reasons that are meant to sound deep but are actually shallow and stupid.

Also Sue and Kuvira's relationship suffers a lot of the same problems that Korra and Mako's relationship does. Its told more then it is shown, they have little if any chemistry and their conflict comes off as contrived and forced. In contrast Korra and Kuvira's relationship is a lot like Korra and Asami's relationship, we see how they mirror one another, (and its actually note brought up that often I think there are only two times when characters compare them to each other), they play off each other beautifully and the conflict feels real and earned. And while Kuvira has more screen time with Sue and has a history with her, in theory anyway, its her conflict with Korra that comes off as the more interesting of the two.

Also, like Mako and Korra, I cannot think of a single moment when Kuvira and Sue acted like family and it makes it look like Sue only hates Kuvira because she is dating her son and her being a dictator is just a convenient excuse to kill her while Korra and Kuvira do feel like mirror images of one another. And finally the show seems to be under the belief that Sue is this great hero who the fans clearly love as, like you said, she is never called out on her actions much like Mako wasn't called out on his treatment of Asami in the first two seasons.

Here, so people who want to discuss the series as a whole can post about it without worrying about spoiling things for people who haven't and are using Chuck's reviews to follow it.

Wilahelm2 wrote:Yeah Su really was the worst. Kuvira suffered from the fact the each season needed to have a few more episodes to really wrap things up in a way that didn't feel rushed. They may not have needed the full 20 like ATLA has but two or three more for each season would have really done a lot.

I'm not sure, Madoka Magica was only twelve episodes long and it didn't feel rushed, everyone had a arc and it was nicely wrapped up towards the end. Like I said before TLOK needed less characters and focus on the ones that have the most impact on the series overall plot which pretty much boils down to Korra, Asami, Tenzin, Lin and Jinora. Characters like Mako, Bolin, Wu & even Varrick and Zhu Li don't really add much to the plot or the five leads.

Another issue is that the comedy, for me at least, isn't as good as what he got in The Legend of Aang not helped by the fact that at least half the cast seems to have been created for the soul purpose of adding more comedy. Bolin, Meelo, Wu, Varrick, Zhu Li, pretty much all the new Airbenders, the secondary villains and Hell, even Mako post Spirits turns into more of a comedic character. And maybe its just me but it often seems like the writers seem more interested in focusing on the comedy characters who are, IMO, less interesting then five leads.

And its not these characters are really needed the dynamic between Korra, Tenzin and Lin provides more then enough comedy and it feels a lot more natural then what we get from Bolin , Wu or Meelo ever do IMHO. Hell given how popular they are just keep Varrick and Zhu Li as secondary characters.

And this isn't just limited to the comedic characters, like I said before, the conflict between Su and Kuvira is less engaging then the one between Korra and Kuvira. There are at least five episodes in Balance that focus on Su's conflict with Kuvira and only three between Korra and Kuvira. Yes almost half the episodes of the final season is about a secondary character, who is not as well developed as Korra, who's reason for hating the villain feels contrived and makes her come off as less sympathetic then the villain.

So yeah while having more episodes might have helped I do think that the series would have worked with the episodes it had and had just gotten rid of the ones who aren't, in my opinion, needed for the series.

This is one of the things that make Korra a great but flawed show. There was no clear core cast like with the original Avatar. In the original series we had Aang, Katara, and Sokka with Toph, Zuko and Suki being added as the series went on. All the other characters were supporting characters of with different degrees of importance and development. As cool as some of the the other supporting characters were the focus was always on the core characters. The set up of the show also helped with this. The heroes were always moving around so there was never a risk of the focus leaving them for a characters that would only be around for a few episodes or less.

With Korra they tried this but by the end focus has shifted to some of the other supporting characters. I think the fact that there was a lot less exploring of the world helped lead to this. By the end of ATLA it was clear who the core cast was but by the end of Korra it was a lot less obvious. Besides Korra who is a core cast member and who is a supporting character? The fact is this seems to change season to season.

Wilahelm2 wrote:Besides Korra who is a core cast member and who is a supporting character? The fact is this seems to change season to season.

I think the characters who have the biggest claim to being a core cast member, besides Korra, are Asami and Tenzin. Lin has several episodes dedicated to fleshing out her back story and character but isn't given much to do after Air. She's still a great character but I would regulate her to more support then lead. Jinora I would put down as supporting character in Air and Balance but lead in Spirits and Change, and much like Lin I see her as one of the best characters in the series.

As you said, Asami is the only character who comes out of every season better then when she started and her character arc, along with Korra's, is the only one to have any lasting consequences. Whether its her relationship with her father, her rebuilding her company or her relationship with Korra Asami always has a impact on the series overall plot and Korra as a result.

Tenzin I would say is a lead in Books One through Three but becomes a supporting character in Balance. Aside from Asami he has the most overall impact on Korra's growth and has more development then Mako and Bolin combined, and given his role as one of the former leaders of Republic City and the leader of the new air nation he clearly has just as much impact on the plot as Korra and Asami do.

As for Mako and Bolin, Mako is really only there to be Korra's love interest and beyond that he doesn't really have any impact on the plot, I mean the whole thing with Varrick is going to be resolved by Bolin just stumbling across it meaning that everything Mako did leading up to Night of a Thousand Stars was completely pointless. And after Spirits, minus the bit where he destroys the Colossus' power core, Mako is just kinda there. I mean even him killing Ming Hua has zero impact on the plot or his character, you could have anyone kill her and nothing would change.

And then we have Bolin, who pretty much only serves the role of comic relief until Balance where his actually given a pretty great character arc that impacts the plot in a big way. I like his relationship with Opal, though like most of the relationships in Avatar, minus Korrasami, it is rushed, (I think it takes them about a day to get together) and he has some nice dramatic moments and proves himself to very useful in the final battle.

After that it gets a bit blurry with Su having a whole arc that is poorly written and takes up more time then it really needs, Kai acts like a supporting character but seems to have more time then he needs and why is Prince Wu in this series? I my honest opinion, Wu is the Worst character of Avatar a big part about why I don't like him is that he suffers from what I call Gold Fish Development. GFD happens when the lessons a character learns is pretty much forgotten about in their next appearance. Wu admitting that he is not cut out to be a king in The Coronation, gloats that he is the rightful heir Earth Kingdom and acts just like he did at the start of the series. Says that Mako's story inspired him to be a better king, only suggest the idea to evacuate Republic City to impress Korra. And then at the end of the series he says that he will not take the throne because he has decided that the Monarchy should be replaced with a democracy even though nothing in any of the episodes he appeared in showed how much better a democracy is making every lesson he learned in every episode before now completely pointless.

At least Mako actually grew, even if some of it wasn't earned IMHO. What Wu learns has nothing to do with the lessons his taught and the time spent with him could have been used to give Mako a actual character arc, focusing more on Korra, Asami or Bolin's arc or used to better explain Su's issue with Kuvira.

(sigh) Still despite these issues I still enjoy The Legend of Korra and look forward to Turf War and hold out hope that Korra will get a film series that continues the shows plot.

Great examples but it just proves the point. There was no core cast like in The Last Airbender. Whatever the intention of the writers the result was that not only did every season have a new villain but a new set of supporting characters to help the Korra deal with them. Its like a tag team fight in wrestling where every season(sometimes every few episodes) characters tag in and out with each other to see who is helping Korra. In one set of episodes she has Mako and Bolin helping then it switches to Tenzin then Lin then Tenzin's kids then the Lin's family then Korra's dad then Korra's dad and Zuko and so on. All of that was just in season 3, there was no consistent supports for the whole way through

Asami is the only consistent support Korra has for the whole series and is probably one of the main reasons she falls for Asami. Because of this there is no consistent character development or growth like with Aang and the rest of his cast. The saving grace is that while the characters of Korra may not have the same kind of development as the characters in Avatar they were all still very likable (for the most part). I'm looking forward to Turf War not just because I want to see Korra and Asami again but I also want to see the rest of these lovable goofballs and see how there doing.

Like I said Korra is a great show but with flaws that probably stand out more because the previous Avatar series didn't have them. If the creators had known from the beginning that they would only have 52 episodes spread over four season things would have run a lot smoother. I would love to see one more season to wrap up the remaining plot threads and questions but it would have to be a full 22 eps. to really deal with everything and everyone

I agree, The Legend of Korra is a lot like the Star Wars Prequels or the Hobbit Trilogy, there is a lot of good and on their own have a lot to offer, but, the flaws are very detracting as, like you said, the original series didn't have them. The Legend of Aang knew who the leads were and where the story was going from the start, sure Zuko wasn't originally part of the plan but he was introduced earlier enough in the shows development that they were able to work him into the story without much trouble.

Korra was only meant to last one season and even then Air didn't seem to be that well planned out as Water was and a big part of that was the fact that they had to many characters and too many subplots and while the Equalist claims to be the main plot of the season, it feels like there is more time devoted to the Love Triangle and Tarrlok's bid for power. In fact the Pro-Bending Tournament has more development in the first six episodes then the Equalist plot does and it ended up being rather pointless.

Had the show dropped the love triangle, the pro-bending tournament, and trimmed down Tarrlok's bid for power I think it would have been just as good as any season of TLOA. The only major change would be working in Asami in some other way and to be honest I would just have changed her history to where she and Korra already knew each other as shown in this fan comic.

http://plastic-pipes.deviantart.com/art ... -567282262

You can still have Hiroshi grow to hate benders or maybe change the Equalist's motivation. Have Amon be more like Batman, someone who is fighting against injustice against the common people but takes his conclusion to the extreme, that he blames those like Tarrlok for letting Republic City getting this bad. Have it be a four way battle between the gangs of RC, the corrupt leaders of Republic City, Amon and his forces and Korra and her allies. You can still have Asami turning on her father and Korra fighting Tarrlok for his abuse of power, just have the former being Hiroshi helping Amon because he blames the counsel instead of benders and Korra goes after Tarrlok after he arrests Asami.

I would also drop Amon and Tarrlok's shared history, don't have them be brothers and drop the whole Noatak backstory and keep the focus on the present day and have everything leading to Korra's fight with Amon and drop Amon being a bender and just have him be a resourceful non-bender. Sure Korra's the Avatar but if Batman can come up with ways to take on Superman then surely a non-bender would be able to find a way to take on the Avatar.

But yeah, that's how I would have done Air differently, what about you?

ok glad this has its own topic now

i personaly prefer korra to the last air bender any one else feel that way