Voyager: Rise

[Thebestoftherest]

https://youtu.be/C-6bT3cmA78

[clearspira]

Space elevators. Cool in concept, terrifying in real life. This would be the biggest terrorist target imaginable. If this thing collapsed it would take out a whole state. Don't believe me? Google reckons that a space elevator would require at least 100,000 KM of steel tether - that's longer than Indiana.

And that aside, how would they rescue you if it broke down? If you are like, 50,000 KM in the air in a pressurised capsule, and suddenly there is a fire. No one is coming for you unless you happen to have the phone number for Thunderbird 2. Its just a plummet to Earth or a slow lingering death by inhalation.

Uh, yeah. No. I'll wait for the shuttle thanks. The food would probably be better when flying Amazon anyway.

[bz316]

This episode really highlights the primary aspect of Neelix that I dislike the most. It's not that he's frequently incompetent or a liar. For example, I love Quark and Rom, and they are frequently one or both of these things depending on the circumstance. For me, its the fact that he NEEDS to be liked and be friends with everyone, and he literally cannot stand the thought that someone does not like him. I have met many people in my life, and the overwhelming majority probably don't like me. Mostly, those people are ambivalent towards me (or mildly dislike me in some cases), and that's fine. Not everyone needs to be my friend. I'm perfectly fine with most people being "that guy I know from work" or "that woman who often waits at the same bus stop as me." But Neelix, when confronted with the reality of someone not liking him, rather than just accepting it and moving on with his life, needles them relentlessly as though that will change their feelings towards him. That kind of pathological neediness is not endearing "Voyager," it's fucking insufferable.

[clearspira]

This episode really highlights the primary aspect of Neelix that I dislike the most. It's not that he's frequently incompetent or a liar. For example, I love Quark and Rom, and they are frequently one or both of these things depending on the circumstance. For me, its the fact that he NEEDS to be liked and be friends with everyone, and he literally cannot stand the thought that someone does not like him. I have met many people in my life, and the overwhelming majority probably don't like me. Mostly, those people are ambivalent towards me (or mildly dislike me in some cases), and that's fine. Not everyone needs to be my friend. I'm perfectly fine with most people being "that guy I know from work" or "that woman who often waits at the same bus stop as me." But Neelix, when confronted with the reality of someone not liking him, rather than just accepting it and moving on with his life, needles them relentlessly as though that will change their feelings towards him. That kind of pathological neediness is not endearing "Voyager," it's fucking insufferable.

You just described my life lol.

Seriously though, Neelix is a narcissist through and through. Look at how he treated Kes talking to other men even after she gave him a lung and asked him to be the father of her only child. For most men that would be enough of an indication that she is loyal. But Neelix comes off an abuser and i've thought that since my first viewing of him. And given how Kes was the equivalent of a child when they first met I guess we can throw groomer in there too.

[stryke]

Neelix is someone who is clearly, fundamentally messed up, and people like that tend not to be someone that you want to spend time with if it is avoidable.

One thing that gets overlooked, and to be fair remembering it involves some baaad episodes, is that he's basically someone whose family was at Hiroshima and was early to the scene thus getting the full brunt of the seriously heavy blow of psychological trauma from the horrors that he saw there. Not helped that the nuke equivalent got dropped in a war he see's himself as a coward for running away from taking part in.

The man resulting from that so desperately tries to form connections because he had his former ones so brutally stolen, and that lack of connection is a gaping wound that constantly haunts him, and because he doesn't handle that trauma very well due to having no one to help him with that results in him deperately latching onto a sister substitute (who he may or may not be sleeping with based on Elogium), and someone he so very wishes that he was his best friend that acts out fantasies on the holodeck of throttling him.

[hypocratus]

The really strange thing about space elevators is that if you have the technology to build one, you no longer need one as you can easily get to orbit another way.

[SFDebris]

I just wanted to share something I had found since the original went up, a guy who takes designers to task for assuming that making something in a computer program is the hard part and the engineering will solve the details. While I retain my soft spot for space elevators, he took this kickstarter to task for trying to raise money for their "prototype," which was to essentially have a robot climb up and down a ribbon. He said something to the effect of, "You don't need to test whether or not we can make something that can climb things, turns out we've already proven that one."

And the true hubris was the logo for the company or foundation or whatever has below its name a quote, complete with attribution, discussing the impossibility of things. The quote is of the owner, again, with attribution to him that he said it, rather than it just simply being a motto or philosophy, as if he'd shared some deep wisdom. He, who has never done or said anything notable, who does not even have a wikipedia page (and whose company's wiki page has no news in the last ten years other than taking all that money from their kickstarter and then going dark) thinks that he is just that quotable. Even Neelix would've been impressed with that narcissism.

[Madner Kami]

I just wanted to share something I had found since the original went up, a guy who takes designers to task for assuming that making something in a computer program is the hard part and the engineering will solve the details. While I retain my soft spot for space elevators, he took this kickstarter to task for trying to raise money for their "prototype," which was to essentially have a robot climb up and down a ribbon. He said something to the effect of, "You don't need to test whether or not we can make something that can climb things, turns out we've already proven that one."

And the true hubris was the logo for the company or foundation or whatever has below its name a quote, complete with attribution, discussing the impossibility of things. The quote is of the owner, again, with attribution to him that he said it, rather than it just simply being a motto or philosophy, as if he'd shared some deep wisdom. He, who has never done or said anything notable, who does not even have a wikipedia page (and whose company's wiki page has no news in the last ten years other than taking all that money from their kickstarter and then going dark) thinks that he is just that quotable. Even Neelix would've been impressed with that narcissism.

The guy gets away with it. So who's the real dunce in that equation? The narcissist or the people sending money to an impossible project, repeatedly (Hello Muskites, yes I am also talking about you). And unlike Neelix' exploits, this one got away rich(er) and without having to stand up to scrutiny and the law.
But at least Neelix doesn't seem to do what he does for profit, but rather a psychological need for being needed and being the part of a greater group he identifies with (it's really onto the naivete of the Voyager-crew, that Neelix doesn't get grounded, proverbially and literally, for his repeated lies and failures). Oh Voyager, your many, many many many missed story-opportunities and procedural developments... Imagine a world where the authors ran with the idea that Neelix isn't actually a lovable scoundrel, but a broken personality desperately looking for healing. Say what you want about the man, he's good natured, wants to be part of the good-guys-group and absolutely loyal and willing to integrate and learn practically everything.

Btw. Chuck, I got one criticism of your review: Yes, Neelix deserved to be chewed out for lying, but, if someone is well versed in a hobby, s/he can very much use that knowledge in practical ways. Sure, knowing how, for example, a (particular) steam locomotive works isn't the same as handling one, but you are not going to walk into the situation without a good base of knowledge to work off of, if you ever had to. I feel the same is true here.

[clearspira]

Btw. Chuck, I got one criticism of your review: Yes, Neelix deserved to be chewed out for lying, but, if someone is well versed in a hobby, s/he can very much use that knowledge in practical ways. Sure, knowing how, for example, a (particular) steam locomotive works isn't the same as handling one, but you are not going to walk into the situation without a good base of knowledge to work off of, if you ever had to. I feel the same is true here.

I'm sorry but no. A model is a model. It has a little control pad that makes it go up and down with sound effects. It tells you NOTHING about the real thing. Saying that you can operate a space elevator because you have a toy is exactly the same as saying that you can drive a car because you collect Hot Wheels.

[Madner Kami]

People tend to get very in-depth with their hobbies. Nothing indicates that what Neelix was toying with was a literal toy. He made it clear: It were scale-models, indicating that he was really into that hobby.