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Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:24 pm
by Fianna
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/l109.php
We need more psychology by way of Looney Tunes.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:36 pm
by Riedquat
This one really does say that Mariner is seriously, seriously messed up.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:00 pm
by CharlesPhipps
I like how Tendi is going from, "This will be fun!" to "Okay, Mariner, you're going full spree killer."
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:09 pm
by Procstar
Riedquat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:36 pm
This one really does say that Mariner is seriously, seriously messed up.
That later gets followed up in future seasons.
If anything, Mariner is a basket case of issues, though we still don't know how she got to that point.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:10 pm
by Procstar
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:00 pm
I like how Tendi is going from, "This will be fun!" to "Okay, Mariner, you're going full spree killer."
Yeah. The holodeck adventure / video game got a lot less fun in between the wanton killing and torture implications.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm
by stryke
Procstar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:09 pmIf anything, Mariner is a basket case of issues, though we still don't know how she got to that point.
Combo of her being one of the kids on the Enterprise D (not confirmed yet but it makes too much sense given what we know about her past) followed by her likely first joining Starfleet at the height of the Dominion War would likely play a big part of it.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:22 pm
by CrypticMirror
Procstar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:09 pm
Riedquat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:36 pm
This one really does say that Mariner is seriously, seriously messed up.
That later gets followed up in future seasons.
If anything, Mariner is a basket case of issues, though we still don't know how she got to that point.
I kinda feel like we do. Like Chuck said in a prev review, she is a Starfleet trust fund kid. She's been indulged and favoured, and never felt any real consequences. It is S3 before she truly starts getting pushback on this from her parents, who have explicitly said they are protecting her from consequences, by no longer giving her that protection, and she's slowly actually starting to shape up. We don't need to go that deep into her psyche to find any trauma, and in fact her "trauma" might actually be the lack of any trauma. We see this all the time in the Real World with the kids of the obscenely rich, or just in regular kids whose parents are in a position to shield them from consequences and unwilling to not indulge them all the time.
It is natural to push limits, to find where those limits actually are. Every kid does it. The problem comes in where they don't get pushback, don't have limits set, so the behaviour is constantly pushing and constantly transgressing. That is Mariner, she has the 25thC version of Affluenza.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:35 pm
by Procstar
stryke wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm
Procstar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:09 pmIf anything, Mariner is a basket case of issues, though we still don't know how she got to that point.
Combo of her being one of the kids on the Enterprise D (not confirmed yet but it makes too much sense given what we know about her past) followed by her likely first joining Starfleet at the height of the Dominion War would likely play a big part of it.
Seems possible, concerning who she knows in Season 2 and 3. They're pretty important canon characters connected to that conflict, so she could've been a combatant in that war.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:37 pm
by Procstar
CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:22 pm
Procstar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:09 pm
Riedquat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:36 pm
This one really does say that Mariner is seriously, seriously messed up.
That later gets followed up in future seasons.
If anything, Mariner is a basket case of issues, though we still don't know how she got to that point.
I kinda feel like we do. Like Chuck said in a prev review, she is a Starfleet trust fund kid. She's been indulged and favoured, and never felt any real consequences. It is S3 before she truly starts getting pushback on this from her parents, who have explicitly said they are protecting her from consequences, by no longer giving her that protection, and she's slowly actually starting to shape up. We don't need to go that deep into her psyche to find any trauma, and in fact her "trauma" might actually be the lack of any trauma. We see this all the time in the Real World with the kids of the obscenely rich, or just in regular kids whose parents are in a position to shield them from consequences and unwilling to not indulge them all the time.
It is natural to push limits, to find where those limits actually are. Every kid does it. The problem comes in where they don't get pushback, don't have limits set, so the behaviour is constantly pushing and constantly transgressing. That is Mariner, she has the 25thC version of Affluenza.
I can buy your argument. Freeman and her father also see that too, which is why they give her the ultimatum.
That being said, she does seem to have some trauma behind her, considering some of her experiences (ex: her friend being eaten by a shapeshifter) and who she knows (ex: Worf, Kira and Quark).
...so I don't think she is just a rich poser. She does have genuine Starfleet skills to back up her years of time in the force. She was also implied to have been a very good cadet in her day - something happened though that made her want to underachieve and be an annoyance to command staff.
Re: Lower Decks: Crisis Point
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:46 pm
by hypocratus
For me it isn't just the holodeck program. I can understand using the holodeck to work through psychological issues. The thing for me is forcing your "friends" to experience as well, without asking them first.