Sfdebris.net

So it appears no one has put up a thread for this episode yet.

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d571.php

So, did anyone else notice that Damar's second-in-command is Neroon?

is it me or was Gowron in this EP acting a lot like Matthew Marcus from ExoSquad, and yes I know that Gowron has a higher ranking than Marcus did. What is it with these nut jobs leaders and thinking that running into battle with every man he's got with no thought on the consequence is a good idea.

I can see it now, Some leader in a space opera is making a good plan to to stop the bad guys, and then here comes both Gowron and Matthew Marcus yelling, "Screw that plan, let's just attack with everything we got! Shot anything in front of you! KIll, Kill, KIll!!!"

And here we also see an interesting dimension for Damar, that of a man who knows when he is out of his element and is doing what he can to keep the Resistance alive despite their pride.

There's also a return of the infamous Starfleet rations joke, wherein the only person in the Alpha Quadrant who likes them is Miles O'Brien.

Gowron himself always worked from a very shaky foundation within the Empire and it certainly didn't help his clout to cancel the Peace with the Federation only to loose a metric arseton of ships while trying to conquer DS9 for no reason, get his first in command be revealed to be a shapeshifter in public and re-agree to the Peace-Treaty, leaving the Klingons publically humiliated (remember, they went to war with Cardassia because they thought the Cardassians were in cahoots with the Shapeshifters, which actually directly lead to the Cardassians being pushed into cahoots with the Dominion and all that because one of Gowron's most trusted advisors was a shapeshifter). What he is trying to do, is clearly forcing his people into a fight, so they don't think too hard about why they actually are in that war.

I can't speak for Marcus, but in Gowron's case it's probably out of insecurity; he's doing it to try and nab a quick, glorious victory for himself to try and make himself look stronger and like a war hero. At this point, Martok has been reaping prestige from his victories, thus making him a threat politically to Gowron's position. Even if Martok himself has no desire to challenge him for the position of Chancellor, public perception would favour him over Gowron, thus weakening Gowron's position and the hypothetical threat he poses is enough to set off Gowron's paranoia. And Gowron can't just kick Martok out as that too would be seen as a sign of weakness to his political allies, so Gowron seizes on the idea that some quick victories will tilt the balance in his favour, which won't happen if he plays it defensively.

Now that's not to say he's right in doing it (on the contrary it's obviously a blunder), but it's easy to see why he'd do it.

Tying into this, recall all the way back in 'Way of the Warrior' where he only backs down when Worf gives him an out that would save face by bringing up an adage by Khaless.

thisithis wrote:I can see it now, Some leader in a space opera is making a good plan to to stop the bad guys, and then here comes both Gowron and Matthew Marcus yelling, "Screw that plan, let's just attack with everything we got! Shot anything in front of you! KIll, Kill, KIll!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qT1efW8BT4

Dînadan wrote:I can't speak for Marcus, but in Gowron's case it's probably out of insecurity; he's doing it to try and nab a quick, glorious victory for himself to try and make himself look stronger and like a war hero.

I think it's more a case of tearing down Martok rather than building up Gowron.

Basically, Gowron is doing what the Roman Senate tried to do to Ceasar when they sent him to Gaul. Caesar was sent there with bad equipment, no money, and effectively no support to legions who were disorganized, undisciplined, and demoralized by the Senate's mismanagement of the campaign. Ceasar was sent to fail in order to cut him off politically at the legs.

The fact that Ceasar turned the whole thing around in a few short years (he had to use his own private money to pay the troops at first since the Senate refused to do so) was shocking to his enemies in the Senate and they were blindsighted by his success.

Similarly, Gowon knows there is little chance of Martok winning such a campaign. He doesn't care. As far as Gowon is concerned, the Dominon is a secondary concern to his own political success and security. Let them ravage Martok's fleet. When it fails, Gowon can use it as political leverage in the High Council if Martok (or others who just want to puppet Martok) starts getting uppity. If by some miracle it succeeds, then Gowon can claim credit and honor, since it was his idea.

Either way, he wins.

ScreamingDoom wrote: I think it's more a case of tearing down Martok rather than building up Gowron.

Basically, Gowron is doing what the Roman Senate tried to do to Ceasar when they sent him to Gaul. Caesar was sent there with bad equipment, no money, and effectively no support to legions who were disorganized, undisciplined, and demoralized by the Senate's mismanagement of the campaign. Ceasar was sent to fail in order to cut him off politically at the legs.

Spoiler (highlight to see):


That's exactly what Gowron is doing. This is made explicit in a future episode.

I always hated this development with Gowron. I actually liked him as a character, and it was nice to see one a character who was introduced in TNG still around. At this point they took a relatively solid and pragmatic character, and decided to turn him into a strawman villain. He was clever and insightful before this, but this episode and the follow-up turned into him a schemer and a self-destructive idiot.

It's nice that in the next episode (I'm pretty sure it's the next episode) they'll point out some of the flaws of Klingon society, and Worf, who was in love with Klingon tradition, will actually start recognizing them. I just didn't think Gowron was so self-centered and dense that he'd sabotage an entire war effort just to ensure his political standing.

"Solid and pragmatic"? Gowron's whole schtick, from his very first appearance, was bugging his eyes way out and acting insane!

I mean, come on, how "solid and pragmatic" is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abqtyH7Aos0

Look how excited Picard is to meet him! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlnUvmqSKAg