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Episodes like this is why Psi Corps in Babylon 5 are a necessary evil imo. Bester would have had this guy clucking like a chicken by the end of the day and good riddance. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Federation not having a psychic division is greatly conspicuous by its absence.

That aside, this is a hard episode to watch. It's on my worst episodes of TNG list purely because of that scene at the end with Troi. I don't think that I have ever watched this ep a second time. I'm not sensitive by any means but that whole scene at the end with Troi is just a bit too close to the knuckle for me. And then they would go on to do it again in ''Nemesis''. I just don't want to watch that.

And nothing comes of it either - the reset button at one of its worst examples. Troi shrugs this traumatic event off like a champ, doesn't she? Maybe she was counselling O'Brian at to how to get over his prison time in one week? Say what you like about T'Pol's similar episode, but at least they followed it up with another episode exploring the ramifications. OK its was crap - in fact it damn near destroyed the Vulcans forever - but even ENT of all places decided that such a serious event shouldn't be resolved immediately.

What's worse I wonder? A bad follow up or amnesia? I honestly don't know.

I think amesia is better for the show. Than you can more easily write it off as a bad episode that can be overlooked in sake of the better ones, early installment weirdness, whatever. Otherwise you risk poking a bear that can not easily be unpoked as then you might have to get into that this is not the first time that Troi has been violated in such a fashion, and hey at least she didn't get pregnant this time...

Follow ups are hard to such episodes. Look at Booby Trap where they at least got close to getting it right but in the end Geordi gets off easy, gets to have the last word, and then even gets to marry her in the series finale.

I wonder if the episode would be more interesting, if we weren't immediatly told who the actual culprit is. Lure the audience into a false sense of security with someone who appears trustworthy and accomodating and pull the rug out under the audience's feet at the end.

Seems weird more wasn't done with the fact that Troi is psychic as well, and so that could potentially have interfered with the perp's usual routine.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:23 pm I wonder if the episode would be more interesting, if we weren't immediatly told who the actual culprit is.

Agreed, it's a decision up there with that Chakotay boxing ep of Voyager for needlessly sabotaging what could have been something better.

We don't need to see the crew repeatedly dealing with their trauma. With all the weirdness they contend with week-in and week-out every one of them would be basket cases before the first season ended.

stryke wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:58 pm I think amesia is better for the show. Than you can more easily write it off as a bad episode that can be overlooked in sake of the better ones, early installment weirdness, whatever. Otherwise you risk poking a bear that can not easily be unpoked as then you might have to get into that this is not the first time that Troi has been violated in such a fashion, and hey at least she didn't get pregnant this time...

That's one of the subtler strengths of that style of storytelling. Unfortunately, we're in an era where the shows now like to intentionally look back on an episode like this, say not enough was done to address it, and then spend an entire season in Picard or something dwelling on the consequences thirty years later of an episode no one wants to revisit, just for the torture and drama of it all.

It's still a selective continuity, despite the paper-thin defenses, but it's really just about being awful.

pilight wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 2:48 am We don't need to see the crew repeatedly dealing with their trauma. With all the weirdness they contend with week-in and week-out every one of them would be basket cases before the first season ended.

Yup. That's the thing, you have to take the show as presented for it to work. If you start doing the "but what if I interpreted everything in as much bad faith as possible" you end up with the modern reboot issue where everything is based on the 2000s-era College Humor/Robot Chicken "what if" gag where everything if horrifying.

There's something about the old episodic show where even if continuity is acknowledged, we still all treat the incidents as individual events. You can't treat it as a cumulative horror, or the entire genre falls apart. It will collapse under the weight of the additional premise that Every Week Is a Trauma. That's a whole different genre, and a different kind of show.

Fianna wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:14 pm Seems weird more wasn't done with the fact that Troi is psychic as well, and so that could potentially have interfered with the perp's usual routine.

Unfortunately, this episode does fit quite well with Troi's talents as a psychic generally landing somewhere between useless and detrimental. If anything, the general trend is that her empathy draws this sort of "real jerk" (and yeah, I'm sure Norm would agree with Chuck here) to target her instead of helping her uncover them.

HighPriest wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:04 am Unfortunately, this episode does fit quite well with Troi's talents as a psychic generally landing somewhere between useless and detrimental. If anything, the general trend is that her empathy draws this sort of "real jerk" (and yeah, I'm sure Norm would agree with Chuck here) to target her instead of helping her uncover them.

You know, I've actually never thought of it that way. Troi's abilities might lead her down to literally empathize with everyone by nature. This kind of behaviour does invite predatory social behaviour in reallife, if the "empath" is woefully unaware of how easy it is to exploit them, particularly if facing a psychopath or sociopaths. Someone who is an easy receptor for the emotions of others, but completely unaware of why they feel the way they do (she lacks the ability to read thoughts) can easily misinterpret emotional reactions and impressions, much more so than someone who has to (subconciously or conciously) analyze the reactions, queues and reasons for the behaviour of the other.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:55 am

HighPriest wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:04 am Unfortunately, this episode does fit quite well with Troi's talents as a psychic generally landing somewhere between useless and detrimental. If anything, the general trend is that her empathy draws this sort of "real jerk" (and yeah, I'm sure Norm would agree with Chuck here) to target her instead of helping her uncover them.

You know, I've actually never thought of it that way. Troi's abilities might lead her down to literally empathize with everyone by nature. This kind of behaviour does invite predatory social behaviour in reallife, if the "empath" is woefully unaware of how easy it is to exploit them, particularly if facing a psychopath or sociopaths. Someone who is an easy receptor for the emotions of others, but completely unaware of why they feel the way they do (she lacks the ability to read thoughts) can easily misinterpret emotional reactions and impressions, then someone who has to (subconciously or conciously) analyze the reactions, queues and reasons for the behaviour of the other.

Yeah, this is sadly ''truth in television'' as they say. A lot of men seem to think that any bit of positive attention from a woman is a cue to creep, even if its something as simple as serving a coffee in a shop.

In-universe headcanon, I wonder if her naivety has to do with her upbringing on a matriarchal world? Thanks to differing male social attitudes she may never have ever been a victim of it before. She implies in ''Angel One'' that Betazed is at least comparable after all.

I also wonder if she just kind of tunes out ''boning feelings'' towards her at this point becoming a kind of white noise. She's a woman in a catsuit with an empathic range of the entire ship (interplanetary with the help of a subspace communicator with all the sense that makes). She probably knows at all times every single man and woman on-board the ship who has sexual feelings for her. That's the best I got - her powers are famously inconsistent but they should be able to spot a guy like this.