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https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e164.php

While I agree with Chuck that the reason for their religious conflict is laughable, one has to understand the environment that made this episode happen:
-Episode aired in January 2004, when the War on Terror was at its peak, people's sentiments against religious fundamentalism, in this case Islamism, were very negative. Terror bombings were talked about 24h per day, and the anti-religious sentiment was on the rise.

-Everything about the Triannons' religion was modeled after the public's perception of Islam: the aversion to any sort of images for their "deities" (cough Caricatures of Mohammed, though Islam also forbids non-joke images of the prophet) and demanding death for even having them, the suicide bombing thingy, hijacking ships for their holy war, the Sunni-Shia divide (where the whole 9 or 10 days parallel comes from), "They are non-believers. That makes them our enemy." which is textbook jihadism. They did add a bit of other "fundamentalisms", like them having a religious aversion to medical investigations, though that one could have simply been a lie to hide their "organic explosives". It's clear that despite Manny Coto stating that they're going for "Fundamentalists of all stripes", the main villains are just Islamists with the serial numbers filed off.

-The way the scene plays, Coto seems to be aiming for "all religious fundamentalism is based on stupid reasons", since no other further explanation is given for the whole 9 or 10 days excuse. However, I feel that while to a religious person would be the difference between "Let's eat grandma" and "Let's eat, grandma", audiences do not understand why it's such a big deal, being that it's a fictional religion. But then again, people at the time would have understood a bit better, due to the whole Al-Qaida thing, similar to how a lot of modern audiences won't understand Cold War parallels from TOS.

Also, dunno how intentional the naming of the aliens was, but calling a bunch of religious zealots "Triannons" has to be peak history injokes in Star Trek.

I'd go one further and actually say, that this story has many a precedent in reality. I mean, one of the first purges within christianism was, when three sects disagreed on whether Jesus was both fully human and fully God (however that works) vs. Jesus being half a man and half a God vs. Jesus was just a man sent by God. And there are many more such absolutely stupid arguements in the history of every religion, usually leading to killing and even wars.

All religions were made by men.

Note - I said ''religion''. Not ''God''.

I am not passing judgement on the existence of the subject of the religion. Only that the framework surrounding it was made by men. Rich men who lived two thousand years ago. This is why there is no commandment for slavery or rape, because the men writing those commandments would have found treating their slaves and women properly to be unspeakable.

Religion itself is a form of man-made social control to keep the poor in check. Religion is imperfect and has glaring mistakes in it that lead to wars because the texts were made by men. Say what you like about Marx, but his ''opium of the people'' line nailed it.

And if we apply this to Star Trek, look at the Prophets. They are very real. And yet, as far as we can tell, they had NO SAY whatsoever in the Bajoran caste system, or the Kai, or earrings, or the stupid hats the Vedeks wear. The Bajorans invented that themselves independent of their gods. The most they ever did was send the orbs - and seeing as we know for a fact that whilst having an orb experience everyone looks like the people you know, that doesn't explain earrings either.

The ''Makers'' that the Triannons speak of are very real - only we call them the Sphere Builders. Yet it was the Triannons who decided to start wars in their name, give themselves tattoos and invent scripture. The Sphere Builders never told them this. Although in this case it has to be said that the Sphere Builders may actually have had a hand in these guys given how they were guarding the spheres from outsiders.

I think it was obvious at the time the inspiration was directly or indirectly the Islamic Jihadists. Or in my case: insurgents when I was in the military at the time.

However offhand, I cannot seem to think of what other religions would have done differently in an extremist sect if given 'full permission' to do what they want or need in name of their religion.

Would have Christians or Jews commit the same acts like the Muslims when fighting a much superior foe in their own home with a religion and society far different than their own.

There is the whole Catholic versus Protestant thing but that is basically ancient history at this point.

Fundementalism and fantacism (regardless of what religion - or lack thereof - they claim to have, real, fictional or otherwise) REALLY tick me off, probably the fastest and most ferverently of anything and considering how much I hate factionalim at the best of times, that's SAYING something. The unbridled arrogance makes me so undescribeably ANGRY.

God in relation to aliens does fascinate me as a subject both in the context of science fiction and in real life.

I am going to make the assumption that all of us on this forum believe in real aliens. So how does that relate to the Christian God? If He created the universe, then He also created Gorblatt of the third planet to the right of the Andromeda Galaxy.

So... does Gorblatt have a Bible? Do they have a Jesus? Are they just ignored from ''God's Light'' even though they may have a society more peaceful and advanced than our own? God created humans in His image after all. Why would the creator of the universe only focus on us? What makes us special?

I've already said that the obvious answer here is that Christianity ''the religion'' is man-made. But if there is any kernel of truth to it at all, it does raise some seriously interesting questions when it comes to other intelligent life in the universe. Actually when you say it like that, it almost sounds like God is kind of racist.

clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:25 pm God in relation to aliens does fascinate me as a subject both in the context of science fiction and in real life.

I am going to make the assumption that all of us on this forum believe in real aliens. So how does that relate to the Christian God? If He created the universe, then He also created Gorblatt of the third planet to the right of the Andromeda Galaxy.

So... does Gorblatt have a Bible? Do they have a Jesus? Are they just ignored from ''God's Light'' even though they may have a society more peaceful and advanced than our own? God created humans in His image after all. Why would the creator of the universe only focus on us? What makes us special?

I've already said that the obvious answer here is that Christianity ''the religion'' is man-made. But if there is any kernel of truth to it at all, it does raise some seriously interesting questions when it comes to other intelligent life in the universe. Actually when you say it like that, it almost sounds like God is kind of racist.

Well... Jesus was a human so he saved Humans.

For the Gorblatts, they need a Gorblatt Jesus. Or maybe the Gorblatts are sinless. Who knows.

It is human arrogance to assume that we look like Our God in the first place. An all powerful, all knowing, everywhere at once, timeless being limited to the human form as his main form.

Where if should really be God having no form and all forms. He would look like your Mom, your Dad, your great Grandfather, Captain Kirk, Optimus Prime, Charlize Theron etc.

Nah, I'm with Chuck on this one.

Even when I first watched this episode as a conservative teenager I thought the "9 or 10 days" difference was reductive and dumb. Fundamentalism and religious zealotry are a lot more complex than just minor disagreements over a single piece of doctrine. It's pat and doesn't actually understand the differences between religions - the customs, the beliefs, the figures and their roles within the history of it, etc., etc. It speaks to people who haven't actually studied WHY these things happen and why it's so much more difficult to achieve lasting peace. People will reduce conflicts to "We need to be willing to listen to each other!" or "Just give peace a chance!" It thinks all religion is rubbish nonsense already, thus their conflicts are trivial and unimportant.

Hell, even at the time I recall people thinking the episode was okay... until the ending wholesale ripping off Let That Be Your Last Battlefield and doing it badly, since the moral at the end was that Lokai and Beel, even in the face of the annihilation of their race, could not give up their hatred.

Linkara wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:08 am Nah, I'm with Chuck on this one.

Even when I first watched this episode as a conservative teenager I thought the "9 or 10 days" difference was reductive and dumb. Fundamentalism and religious zealotry are a lot more complex than just minor disagreements over a single piece of doctrine.

Granted, sometimes it's more complex than just the question whether God rested on sunday or saturday, but historically, it's much more often like in The Life of Brian. The Judean People's Front vs The People's Front of Judea. Say, are you still a Christian?