Sfdebris.net

https://youtu.be/aAvAD3aRvSs?si=0kuuCov5fes1bf8Z

One thing that's come to light since this review was first a thing is just how messed up things were with Jennifer Lien, and that with her personal issues it was very likely she wasn't going to be lasting long past what time she did have on Voyager, even if Harry Kim hadn't been saved by virtue of being a mag's beautiful person.

In that respect this episode, if anything, comes across as even meaner having her coming back as mixed up and crazy.

Has anyone heard just what they were thinking back then? Was it them doing her a backhanded favour by paying her to appear even if it wasn't at all flattering? The mind does boggle.

stryke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:48 pm https://youtu.be/aAvAD3aRvSs?si=0kuuCov5fes1bf8Z

One thing that's come to light since this review was first a thing is just how messed up things were with Jennifer Lien, and that with her personal issues it was very likely she wasn't going to be lasting long past what time she did have on Voyager, even if Harry Kim hadn't been saved by virtue of being a mag's beautiful person.

In that respect this episode, if anything, comes across as even meaner having her coming back as mixed up and crazy.

Has anyone heard just what they were thinking back then? Was it them doing her a backhanded favour by paying her to appear even if it wasn't at all flattering? The mind does boggle.

I've tried to do a bit of research on this but the background info for this ep seems to be mostly hearsay.

First off, I think it needs to be noted that on the Delta Flyers podcast for ''Scorpion'', Garrett Wang adamantly denies that he was ever going to be axed. Moreover, I cannot find any official word on it from any official source. Every article just uses nebulous terms like ''the producers'' or ''the writers'' but never actually name names. This is always a warning sign in my experience when you have a quote without a source. It appears to be just media speculation as far as I can tell.

What I did find on several websites including Wikipedia however are references to the fact that Jennifer Lien was already suffering with mental health and addiction issues during the show's run. She also suffered from a severe allergic reaction to the ears forcing them to be removed (which is why she has long hair in season 3). And here's the interesting bit: I found a quote from Micheal PIller that Kes's role in ''Caretaker'' was simply to make the viewers care about Neelix. And later on, when they decided that Neelix and Kes's relationship carried some seriously dodgy undertones, they were left with a character who was completely removed from her original premise. Both Rick Berman and Jeri Taylor are quoted as saying that they had reached a creative dead end with her.

All of this makes it clear at least to me that she was always going to get the chop and not Wang. Especially as she would have been competition for Seven of Silicone and that couldn't be allowed to happen.

So, anyway, ''Fury''. Can't find much on this one only that they wanted to do with Kes what they did with Yar over on TNG - bring her back for an episode. And given how ''Yesterday's Enterprise'' is a fan favourite why not? What I can say however is that is was Lien who requested that the script be changed to what it is now. She wanted the dark, angry Kes and it WAS NOT the original intention to have her be this way. She is quoted as saying that she never should have come back. (Speaking of ''The Gift'' vs ''Fury'') ''I made a lot of poor acting choices in the latter.''

So to summerise. The writers absolutely knew of the actor's personal problems come ''Fury''. And they let her be dark anyway. Don't know how wise that was as I also came across an anecdote from the episode ''Warlord''. Apparently she got so into the role of being an angry, violent psychopath that she worried the cast and crew. Either she was a great method actor or she was channelling her dark side.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:10 pm First off, I think it needs to be noted that on the Delta Flyers podcast for ''Scorpion'', Garrett Wang adamantly denies that he was ever going to be axed.

I've listened to that podcast too, and frankly I think Garrett Wang that is not being entirely truthful.

Sure, maybe he's right, but we also know full well that the producers had it in for him up to including putting lines in the character's own mouth to take shots, his on record issues with lateness which he talks about a bunch on the podcast, along with him being the one actor of so many to be denied the chance to direct, and so I suspect the story has a lot more to it than what he claims. It's also a story that's been around long before I heard it again from SFDebris so I suspect it's something that pisses him off from hearing it from fans bringing it up at conventions, and he doesn't like to reminded about it.

I'll also note that on the podcast they've certainly alluded to Jennifer Lien's problems which sound to me at least like they were already a thing during her time on the show.

Does make me feel better though if the changes really were at her request, and it was just the showrunners trying to accomodate her.

"Kes is back, and she's pissed" is not actually a bad hook for an episode. Voyager fumbled it, as was their wont.

I loved post-episode bit with Janeway's file for time travelers.

Man Kes’s memory isn’t that good.

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:52 pm I loved post-episode bit with Janeway's file for time travelers.

That was hilarious. No wonder they can't back up The Doctor; the ship's memory core is filled up with her flowchart.