Sfdebris.net

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/w109.php

This is one video where I can't agree with Chuck on how the show handled the Gorn.

-I don't buy the "it's the opposite of what VOY did to the Borg, so it's fine I guess" reason, because overcompensating for any flaws can sometimes be just as bad. It's like how in the awful Dragon Ball Evolution film, the writers turned Bulma into a stereotypical cartoonish Hollywood tough action girl boss, because they really thought the character needed "fixing", otherwise people couldn't take her seriously if she was different. Yeah, her characterization wasn't the best in the original, but this is just overcompensating because someone thought the original was stupid. Same here. Sure, the Gorn originally weren't the most successful alien design, but that was mostly because of the show's limited budget and the fact that even at the time doing any believable stunt work was difficult, moreso if the scene required special makeup (TOS simply simply didn't have the money and the resources to hire Ray Harryhausen or anyone with his similar skills). So I don't see how "upgrading" them from cheesy cosplay into generic CGI monsters is an "improvement".

-Given that the Xenomorphs in the Alien franchise are supposed to be essentially (smart) parasitic animals, they are best described as "getting syphilis after having unprotected sex with a sheep" or "Trichinosis after you ate contaminated food" (this is literally the "Space Special" joke in Spaceballs). As the Gorn were meant to be a metaphor for "one shouldn't succumb to savagery even if your foe is a literal savage" or something along those lines... yeah, I think there might be a tiny little problem with making the Gorn into actual bloodthirsty monsters.

-Not only it shits all over the already established canon regarding the Gorn, but keep in mind that Kurtzman also wrote "Into Darkness", where he had Alt-McCoy tell how he "once performed an emergency C-section on a pregnant Gorn. Octuplets, and let me tell you, those little bastards bite." So either the Gorn can get pregnant (meaning the whole "venom/eggs" is bullshit) or McCoy decided to surgically remove the Gorn murderous babies from an unlucky victim that was near-death, and somehow was able to survive being attacked by not just one Gorn baby (which has been shown to be capable of killing an adult man in this episode), but eight damn Gorn babies, and even joked about it! Sure, Kurtzman didn't wrote this episode, but he did produce it, meaning he would have had to approve such a drastic change. But he didn't care. In other words, Kurtzman has no fucking idea what he wrote for Star Trek.

-Also, what meaningful character development or interaction happened in this episode? Everybody acts like goddamn idiots. If this didn't feature Star Trek characters, I would have thought it was some cheap direct-to-DVD horror film.

It's pretty clear that the only reason the writers didn't bother creating a new species is because then the Xenomorph ripoff would have been even more obvious. It's safer to just reimagine an already established alien species, keeps the lawyers happy.

Again, why are these Gorn? And, really, they could've owned the fact Gorn are a sluggish race. "Arena" kind of did by having the Gorn captain use a trap to try to immobilize Kirk to take away his advantage of maneuverability. Really, watching that episode again, it's actually stressful to always hear the Gorn snarling while trying to hunt Kirk down. There was no getting away from him.

I remember someone discussed Gorn physiology pre-Strange New Worlds. They suggested Gorn are like sharks, where they keep their eggs internally where they hatch rather than pregnancy in the mammalian sense. It has advantages over laying a clutch that needs to looked after and kept in a safe and optimal environment.

I would have rather gone with making Gorn like monitor lizards. Their young are arboreal with tails and eat primarily insects. They have a natural instinct to seek as high a place as quickly as possible and will lash out at anyone trying to impede them (like the doctor delivering them). As they mature, they lose their tails, spend more time on the ground, and move to progressively larger vertebrates. It would give them more than egg spit (how does that even work?).

Yeah I also disagree with Chuck's take. The whole point of the gorn was that, despite appearances, they were reasoning beings, not feral monsters. Xenomorphs were cunning, but still basically animals, not intelligent life-forms deserving to be considered as such. I get that the character work is good, but this treatment detracts from the message of the first episode that gave them their appeal.

Small question for everyone - has Chuck not been grading all the SNW episodes?

I rather agree with him on most points.. I really enjoy this episode and I have little issue with the Gorn being trumped up as a baddie (as opposed to watered-down Borg in VOY). I know that it creates a continuity issue, but at this point, it feels like continuity has been thrown out with the bath water, so who cares?

Moo

The writers of modern Star Trek seem to be fans of Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda given season 3 of DISCO and now these Magog-esque Gorn. And Micheal is basically female Dylan Hunt in that both are half-breeds and both are the centre of their respective universes.

That aside, this is probably the most wrong I think Chuck has ever been. That's fine - it is the Opinionated Episode Guide after all. But turning the Gorn, who were a racism allegory, into a species like this is criminal in my opinion. Chuck once made the argument that the Viidians are ''Hostis Humani Generis'' AKA enemy of mankind. This is because of the fact that despite there being a few good one's, most of them have adopted an extreme ''you and us'' attitude that means that you have very good reason to attack any of them that you meet. It is kill or be killed. Same as the Wraith over on Stargate.

This is now the same as the Gorn. BTW, it is pretty dumb that Kirk didn't seem to know who they were in TOS given how he is in this show huh?

DrReiCow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:35 am Small question for everyone - has Chuck not been grading all the SNW episodes?

I rather agree with him on most points.. I really enjoy this episode and I have little issue with the Gorn being trumped up as a baddie (as opposed to watered-down Borg in VOY). I know that it creates a continuity issue, but at this point, it feels like continuity has been thrown out with the bath water, so who cares?

Moo

Chuck hasn't graded much since DISCO season 1. That aren't even really ''reviews'' at this point. I'm not complaining, its his choice, I just find it odd is all.

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:51 am

DrReiCow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:35 am Small question for everyone - has Chuck not been grading all the SNW episodes?

I rather agree with him on most points.. I really enjoy this episode and I have little issue with the Gorn being trumped up as a baddie (as opposed to watered-down Borg in VOY). I know that it creates a continuity issue, but at this point, it feels like continuity has been thrown out with the bath water, so who cares?

Moo

Chuck hasn't graded much since DISCO season 1. That aren't even really ''reviews'' at this point. I'm not complaining, its his choice, I just find it odd is all.

He can't very well score relative to the series, when he doesn't know what the rest of the series is like. For example, he could say "Magic to make the sanest mind go mad" is the best Discovery episode when he reviewed it, but without seeing the other seasons, he wouldn't be sure.

I still say they should've used the Kzinti. They are known for their savagery, hostility towards Terrans, and habit of eating sapient beings. I guess they think people wouldn't take cat people seriously.

Al-1701 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:01 pm I still say they should've used the Kzinti. They are known for their savagery, hostility towards Terrans, and habit of eating sapient beings. I guess they think people wouldn't take cat people seriously.

Probably difficult to look good too.

TGLS wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:23 pm

Al-1701 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:01 pm I still say they should've used the Kzinti. They are known for their savagery, hostility towards Terrans, and habit of eating sapient beings. I guess they think people wouldn't take cat people seriously.

Probably difficult to look good too.

And making the Gorn look like Randal from Monsters Inc. is better?