Sfdebris.net

I figure this thread can be for both parts of the series final of "Deep Space 9".
We've already talked about a number of topics related to the events in parts 1 and 2 in the lead up to them. For instance, the behavior of the Female Changeling (aka, Sanders) and the moral/ethical disconnect of her behavior and the behavior of Section 31.

Part 1
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d575.php

Part 2
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d576.php

I'll start by saying this. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is one of my favorite television shows. It, along with Babylon-5, stands as the bar by which I measure other shows, and those two shows have had the strongest influence on my approach to story-telling in my personal writing.

So this finale was an emotional one for me, oh yes. B5 had ended half a year earlier and, with both gone, I had nothing left in terms of SF that I loved. I didn't care for Voyager, you see. I'd never liked the lost in space element, and my watching of it had been sporadic until Season 3 when I just dropped it. So I remember feeling contented, but bittersweet, on that final shot of Kira comforting Jake on the upper Promenade as the shot zoomed out to show the station recede gently, its theme music playing as we left DS9 behind.

Hopefully one day we'll get a show like DS9 again. A show that's not afraid to show the darker side of our natures but which doesn't seem to revel in it (unlike certain popular spec-fiction shows I could mention today...). But until then, I'll always have a tender spot in my heart for Deep Space Nine, and the amazing cast of characters that called the station home.

I was surprised by how sadly it ended, but in hindsight, that was inevitable.

If you'll forgive me for going somewhat off-topic I'm going to wax nostalgic about DS9 overall.

I never watched DS9 growing up - I was raised a Trekkie but my Mom didn't like Voyager (understandable), Enterprise (even more understandable), or DS9 (baffling), so I only ever watched TOS and TNG unless I was with my cousins, who preferred Voyager (again, baffling). The main impressions DS9 made on me as a kid were the sad, sad scene where Cor sacrifices himself, and the scene of Ezri and Julian's pillow talk. (I wonder why on Earth a shirtless Alexander Siddig made an impression on an eleven or twelve-year-old girl who had just discovered boys weren't always gross? ) In fact I always had the impression DS9 was "the weird one" and it is, but not in the way I thought before I watched it.

I actually watched DS9 because of Chuck. I can't have a silent room while studying so I need something to play in the background while I was studying while I went through grad school, and I found Chuck's reviews thanks to Linkara. I started by watching all his Enterprise and Voyager reviews because they were hilarious, but then I decided to see what was up with "the weird one" so I watched his DS9 reviews and to my surprise it actually looked good. What sealed the deal on me watching it was Jeffrey Combs - I knew the name because I am a huge Scarecrow fangirl and Combs was the best Scarecrow voice actor Jonathan Crane had over the course of Batman the Animated Series, and when I heard Chuck say the name I was like, "Wait I know that guy!" (I had a distinct mental image based on his Scarecrow voice and my reaction when I saw Weyoun was, "Oh my God, he's adorable!" since I'd been picturing a much taller, gruffer looking person.) So I looked to see if it was on Netflix and all of the Treks were! So I gave DS9 a binge watch. It was the "weird one" in that it was challenging and interesting, by far the riskiest of the Treks and in my opinion that paid off. I loved it. It completely captured my imagination and reignited by childhood Trekkiedom.

Despite many people complaining that it went against Gene's Vision(TM), you could tell that many of the showrunners were TOS fanboys, and in a way it felt like the modern Trek that was the most direct successor of TOS. It had gravitas and drama (I have not cried so much at a television show in my life) but also humor (I like most of the Ferengi episodes, sue me) and action (even if they had to reuse battle footage due to budget ...). Even when it was bad, it wasn't so bad, and when it was good it was great.

I had a very hard time of ... everything, in grad school. Emotionally, mentally, financially, even physically. And either because of that or on top of that I also started struggling with depression again (I've been depressed off and on since I was a small child) and one way that manifested was I was deeply disappointing in absolutely everything geeky and I hated that aspect of myself, and wanted to literally tear it out of myself. Then halfway through my second rewatch of DS9, I was on my way home from a late night in the lab, thinking about the novels I wanted to read and the fanfic I wanted to write based on DS9, and I suddenly realized I was happy being a geek again and I literally started to cry because it had been so long since I'd been happy with that part of myself. Speaking of that fanfic, writing it has been incredibly therapeutic and helped me work through some of the issues I've had for years. If I ever meet anyone involved in the show I will definitely embarrass myself tripping over myself to thank them for making this wonderful thing that was a buoy I clung to when I was lost at sea (that's melodramatic af but I don't care).

And Chuck I don't know if you read these threads but if you do, thank you so, so much for your videos that helped me discover this show (and several other works that I love) when I needed it most.

The first sign that your regime is collapsing, is when you are doing more damage to it then the enemy

What you leave behind is a roller coaster and I forgot just how much is in the second half compared to the first.

My short DS9 testimonial- my Dad brought us up on the original Trek and TNG, and I watched a smattering of Voyager as a kid during its original run. For whatever reason, DS9 was frowned upon. Eventually I watched a couple of the episodes that had a reputation as being the best DS9 episodes, I liked them fine but out of context they didn't make much of an impression on me. Years later my family decided to go through all the Trek series together, and at the conclusion of the finale we all agreed that DS9 was the best of the modern Trek series.

I suspect that many Trek fans had experiences similar to my own. DS9 didn't have the backing of childhood nostalgia, and for some reason (I suspect TNG fans protective of Roddenberry's vision, and maybe airing at a time when fewer were prepared for serialization) people came in with a bias against the show. The fact that DS9 has built up a strong fanbase is a credit to its real quality. It's still a bit of a shame that it wasn't given more credit at the time of its release, because it really deserves to be put up there with the best sci-fi on television.

As for the finale itself, I suppose I'll have more to say when the review is all in, but overall I'd classify it as a definite success. I don't think it perfectly captured what the series was about like All Good Things did for TNG, but still a strong success. Particularly when you look at the lackluster endings of some other spec fiction franchises.

I have to agree with Chuck here. Weyoun's service, dedication, and loyalty show that he's really just on the wrong side.

One thing I am wondering, is the disease ruining Sandy's mental state, and is thus making her more irrational and prone to making bad decisions? That was always my read on it.

FaxModem1 wrote:I have to agree with Chuck here. Weyoun's service, dedication, and loyalty show that he's really just on the wrong side.

One thing I am wondering, is the disease ruining Sandy's mental state, and is thus making her more irrational and prone to making bad decisions? That was always my read on it.

Possibly, I always took it as Reality was beginning to set in even Sanders couldn't deny internally... she wasn't the victim standing firm against the Solid horde

She's Tyrant and everybody is coming after her due to her actions... She's got no one to blame but herself.

FaxModem1 wrote:I have to agree with Chuck here. Weyoun's service, dedication, and loyalty show that he's really just on the wrong side.

One thing I am wondering, is the disease ruining Sandy's mental state, and is thus making her more irrational and prone to making bad decisions? That was always my read on it.

It may have made things a little worse, but she was always really, really bad. I mean, we saw as much when she told Odo she would have Kira killed in order to get him to fully join them. The more involved she got the worse things went.

Sir Will wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:I have to agree with Chuck here. Weyoun's service, dedication, and loyalty show that he's really just on the wrong side.

One thing I am wondering, is the disease ruining Sandy's mental state, and is thus making her more irrational and prone to making bad decisions? That was always my read on it.

It may have made things a little worse, but she was always really, really bad. I mean, we saw as much when she told Odo she would have Kira killed in order to get him to fully join them. The more involved she got the worse things went.

I'm now picturing the Link nominating Sanders to run the Alpha Quadrant situation because none of the other Founders can stand her. The Link is just enjoying being away from the awful Sanders who is a tyrannical asshat who squanders resources and opportunities. She is the Arnold Rimmer of the Great Link, doing a task no one else wants to do and they can't stand her.

Robovski wrote: I'm now picturing the Link nominating Sanders to run the Alpha Quadrant situation because none of the other Founders can stand her. The Link is just enjoying being away from the awful Sanders who is a tyrannical asshat who squanders resources and opportunities. She is the Arnold Rimmer of the Great Link, doing a task no one else wants to do and they can't stand her.

I would say she is closer to the Londo Mollari of the Great Link since she still shows some competence in her task, like getting the Breen on her side for example, whereas if she was closer to Rimmer the Federation would have won the war a year ago with much less casualties.