Sfdebris.net

Okay let's ask the question. The one I always kinda had for a while but the episode brings up.

When should the SGC should have become publically known. It's gotten kind of worse and worse through the years. Now, I am of the mind keeping it secret made sense. Who knew what the Stargate was, beyond the Egyptians had it and the Nazis wanted it cause Hitler was trying to prove the Aryans created flying spaceships or some such nonsense. Whatever the reason was, SGC was hidden and the military was in charge of it. But then came aliens, and aliens who REALLY wanted Earth underheel. Now, near the end of season 1, a senator finds out about the SGC and wants it banned because they cost, every year to operate... 7 billion dollars. Now to those younger than myself, the US military had a different rep in the 90's. It was considered in the late 80's by many non American nations that if the US went to war with Iraq, they would lose. Yes, I'm not kidding. It was believed that the US military system had become too weak because of various reasons, most of which was caused by Sylvester Stallone being needed to kill them damn commies instead of anyone actually still in service. A joke, but only slightly on the rep of the military. Thus, vast military expenses was NOT the norm. Today, 7 billion is CHEAP, but back then... while not shattering, was an eyebrow raise.

But Kinsey was presented as evil for wanting to shut down the SGC, and while I think he's an idiot for it and would be proven evil later, honestly... he had a big point. It WAS odd they kept it so hidden that he, in charge of the budget, had no idea it existed till he looked for it. But hey, this is season 1. How bad would it be if Earth was invaded by aliens, and they hid that? Or hell... twice? Yes, aliens invaded, in MASSIVE ways, and the SGC hid it. This... starts to cross a line, especially with our allies. The US military has decided to hide this from MANY in the government, and now our own allies. Why? They never state why. Just... they have to. They SHOULD do so. Now I like the SGC, but with so little oversight, what's stopping them from being Conqustidaors? As we see... close to NOTHING! While I was of the mind that the US military wanting naquedah (Sorry if I spelled it wrong) from that weird native american village was not evil, it does show they can just push around anyone. What IS stopping the SGC from taking over planets? The president? Well let's be frank, Bush probably was cool with that. What stopped it was that the SGC was populated by those more moral, but than you have the NID. They are evil, because they aren't military. That's it.

Too much of Stargate is the military saying 'trust us bro' and almost EVERY opponent to it is treated as a psycho villain who wants to be EVIL with it, or just stupid. Like that one military commander who decided to nuke a whole planet for the Lols and did so in a way that almost killed Earth. Why was he so stupid? Because he MAY have been a part of the NID, and they aren't TRUE military. Any time non military people come to the SGC, they are idiots, monsters, or people who worship the SGC. You have Dr. Weir who... I can joke is the former and middle, but really she is the exception that proves the rule. Weir was a tyrant, plain and simple, and more than showed how ZERO oversight or checks can turn the SGC into a force of evil. Hey, don't hate on me, I'm not the one who wrote her willing to exile and murder people for disagreeing with her! This shows the SGC can be so abused quickly, because who'll fire her? No one can judge her, except for the President or Hammond, and she can quickly reveal the secret to protect her back. Daniel says the President wants the SGC revealed to protect his back, but yeah, duh. The SGC... is SCARY AS HELL! Super alien tech they hide, able to start war whenever that 99.9999% of Earth has no idea of, and are building spaceships that they can use whenever. My god, I hate to add real world, but imagine the SGC with DONALD TRUMP AS ITS LEADER! No jokes, he'd reveal it in a FUCKING HEARTBEAT to Putin and turn it into a US/Russian joint effort... and than somehow Putin can lose the Hammond to a Ukranian pogo stick, somehow.

The secret should have been revealed because people DESERVE to know and not to have it so abused. The SGC is ripe to be taken over by insane people who can wreck the planet and run away, and get away with it. Hiding it stopped making sense the SECOND America started making deals with intergalactic powers to gain tech. I love Jack, but when the Aschen told him they need to reveal the SGC's existence to the world... he was actually PISSED for a second. Dude, why? Because you don't want North Korea to know? WHO GIVES A SHIT! China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel? Well too bad, two of those assholes are our allies and we JOINED with Russia in the show anyway! (Forced, yes, but my Putin argument stands). Them keeping it hidden just becomes kind of creepy and scary, and the worst part of it all is... you just ask why by the end of the show. WHY is it secret? How does this benefit them, Earth, or America? What do they gain by season 11, episode 19? What do they gain... beyond the fact that maybe one day, some psycho will take command and start becoming a System Lord. They MUST know this... and don't care. SG-1 would care... but SG-7? SG-11? Those guys who move the gate? They probably don't care, just another tuesday for them. They're already lying to the rest of the world everyday of their lives, who cares what people OPPOSITE of the gate think?

The main problem I have with it isn't that the US government wanted to hog the Gate and only let a select few in on it; such conspiracies are pretty common in fiction after all, and those of us who live in other Western democracies have been able to tell that the US has quite the authoritarian streak for a while now.

No, instead my problem with the whole premise is that they even managed to actually keep it a secret. I mean, there wasn't just one or two amateur astronomers plus the US government keeping an eye on the night sky at any given moment even back then, there were more than several thousands in a multitude of countries. So the gig should have been up in the first episode of season two already, and even if you feel generous and let the show get away with that particular incident—and some subsequent ones on the same scale—, Anubis' attack was really too big to be swept under the rug, even by that universe's standards.

Edit: Typos

Um, anyone know what he was reference at the start of the video because I'm clueless.

elections

To be honest, if there is anything I've learned about the US within the last 20 years, it's that most voters don't care about the world outside of that country. Or more like, they don't understand that it actually exists.

Elections follow this.

Edit: Typos

Nah. Something like this would be a huge deal. Big time. Ammunition for the opposite party in fact. CNN, Fox News anyone. Big time be a big deal.

Conservative side might actually try to make it as being Fake News. But since Trump wasn't a factor in that universe, we could assume the certain groups saying it's fake just like the Moon Landing.

Not this would be a big deal.

I think what happened was, the longer they kept the SGC a secret, the harder it became to go public. If they'd told the world the truth in Season 1, things would probably have gone fine for them. But after a few more years and a few more covered up alien invasions, they're in the unenviable position where, if they ever do go public, people will be outraged that they kept it a secret for as long as they did - so they have to go on keeping it a secret so that doesn't happen.

Several times, characters acknowledge that eventually the Stargate program will have to be revealed to the public, but no one's clear on what precisely they're waiting for. Ultimately, I think each person at the SGC was hoping it stayed secret just long enough that, when the shit hits the fan, they're comfortably retired or working somewhere else, and the public blowback will be Not My Problem.

Fianna wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 10:46 pm I think what happened was, the longer they kept the SGC a secret, the harder it became to go public. If they'd told the world the truth in Season 1, things would probably have gone fine for them. But after a few more years and a few more covered up alien invasions, they're in the unenviable position where, if they ever do go public, people will be outraged that they kept it a secret for as long as they did - so they have to go on keeping it a secret so that doesn't happen.

Several times, characters acknowledge that eventually the Stargate program will have to be revealed to the public, but no one's clear on what precisely they're waiting for. Ultimately, I think each person at the SGC was hoping it stayed secret just long enough that, when the shit hits the fan, they're comfortably retired or working somewhere else, and the public blowback will be Not My Problem.

The best time IMO would have been after Aphosis attacked at the ending of season 1 and beginning of season 2. The way I look at it, is that it prevents the push back from people like Senator Kinsey from just shutting it all down and pretend nothing happened.

With the immediate threat of Aphosis over with, then you could then go to the various countries perhaps at least in secret and nail down a program. How to use the Stargate, who will contribute etc. Then a way to introduce the Stargate to the public.

Like would they take the gate to a more neutral spot but still protected in the same way as Stargate Command? How would it be controlled etc.

I think the series did dive into potential hurdles making it public would make. Corrupt organizations. Corrupt politicians. Rich people wanting to use if their own gain etc.

Yeah at a certain point in the series, making it public would cause chaos no matter what. Earth but specifically has spaceships. They have space fighters. They have access to very powerful weaponry and even shields? A new clean as I can tell power source? And the US is hoardering it most to themselves? Oh wait Russia and China had/have ships of their own? WTF!

Probably the best time would have been once the threats to Earth had lessened or gone. But when would that be?

Nevermind the Lost City of Atlantis and all of the problems of space vampires that would love to come to Earth.

There is a fascinating study by a man named Dr David Grimes is a physicist and mathematician from Oxford University who decided to try and create a mathematical model as to how many people is too many people when it comes to keeping a gigantic conspiracy theory alive such as the Moon Landing hoax.

He did this in part by investigating three large conspiracies that were actually real and comparing the amount of people in said conspiracy with how long it took for it to be revealed.

The first was the NSA surveillance program codenamed PRISM that was blown by Edward Snowden. It involved aprox 36,000 people and took six years to be revealed.
The second was the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. It involved aprox 6,700 people and took twenty-five years to be revealed.
The third was an FBI scandal where forensic information was being covered up. It involved aprox 500 people and took six years to be revealed.

By applying this, and other methods, he notes that in 1965 there were 411,000 people that were involved in the Apollo program. That is 411,000 people that you would have to keep quiet. By his estimation it should have taken no more than 3.7 years for the conspiracy to have been revealed.

The problem is that human beings just are not very good at keeping secrets. There is always a drunk in a bar, someone who can be bribed, a whistleblower, a deathbed confession, a bloke who tells his sweetheart etc.

Now lets apply this to the Stargate Program. You have Cheyenne Mountain (which also houses friggin' NORAD btw), you would have to include NASA given how they once launched a shuttle to save SG-1, there is Area 51, the NID, the International Oversight Committee, an untold number of politicians, journalists, marines, soldiers and air force personal, there are the observatories and radio telescopes that you would have to silence, and there are the aliens themselves who keep on finding themselves to Earth.

Realistically, this conspiracy could not have lasted seventeen seasons if you count all three shows. And it is a sign of bad worldbuilding and perhaps even bad writing that such a thing was never explored. And as McAvoy says, imagine learning tomorrow that every science fiction technology was both real and in use. That would change the election somewhat lol.

Let's not forget about the amount of people involved with the development and construction of the X programs, as in the 301, 302, 303 and 304. As in obviously they are brining in raw ore from the Stargate to be processed and formed into whatever they need to make. The mass production of the mini super nuke reactors and the larger ones etc.

Plus who else knows outside the US in the other countries. I can easily see Russia and China keeping that secret easy enough but what about the other more open democratic countries.

We are easily talking about millions of people who while not directly involved and with direct knowledge is at least handling something let's say odd. More odd than usual. Imagine some metalurgist staring at the properties at a metal processing plant some alien ore. He or she would definitely recognize it wasn't anything they have ever seen before. He can't say anything because it's the US Air Force, but to him it's so weird because the Air Force needs thousands of tons of this material on a monthly or weekly basis.