Lower Decks: A Look at We'll Always Have Tom Paris

[stryke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYXD1Lib6I0&t=1s

I entirely agree with the conclusion to this review, but oh man, that beautifully constructed brick joke of slowly making Boimler into a Kazon to give Tom Paris Delta quadrants flashbacks is still so dang amazingly funny

[Nobody700]

I'd mock Tom thinking a Kazon got to the Alpha Quadrant... but those cabbage heads TENDED to be pretty far out. I think even the show runner for Voyager pointed out that they should have left Kazon space a long time ago but the Kazon were still on their tail.

[BlackoutCreature2]

I'd mock Tom thinking a Kazon got to the Alpha Quadrant... but those cabbage heads TENDED to be pretty far out. I think even the show runner for Voyager pointed out that they should have left Kazon space a long time ago but the Kazon were still on their tail.

They made it to Tars Lamora (which is supposed to be on the border between the Delta and Beta Quadrants) in "Prodigy", so it's not too hard of a stretch to imagine a few making it to Federation space.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I liked the lampshading of "Huh we really should have teamed up for a girl trip before now", but then that may be because I'm always sniffing around for some femslash vibes and it inspired a beautiful Mariner x Tendi fanfiction.

[clearspira]

I'd mock Tom thinking a Kazon got to the Alpha Quadrant... but those cabbage heads TENDED to be pretty far out. I think even the show runner for Voyager pointed out that they should have left Kazon space a long time ago but the Kazon were still on their tail.

They made it to Tars Lamora (which is supposed to be on the border between the Delta and Beta Quadrants) in "Prodigy", so it's not too hard of a stretch to imagine a few making it to Federation space.

General question for the thread here: what tech level are we going with for the Kazon? Because in my mind they seem to be at the same level as the NX-01 + a warp 7.5 warp core and that is being generous. The protein resequencer for example that is basically an advanced 3D printer that turns base ingredients into food and shit into boots seems beyond the race that could not work out how to make their own water and killed themselves with a replicator.

I bring this up because are we really going with this? That the Kazon could make it past the Hirogen, past the Borg, past that void that blotted out all of the stars, past all of the pirates, the anomalies, the big ass pitcher plant... and reach Federation space?

Bearing in mind here too, that the USS Equinox, which is inferior to Voyager but is still incredibly advanced in comparison to the Kazon, got absolutely royally screwed within weeks. They failed but the LA street gangs in some stolen ships made it?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the writers of Prodigy thought ''let's reference this alien from the other show'' and did not put much thought into it.

[stryke]

They failed but the LA street gangs in some stolen ships made it?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the writers of Prodigy thought ''let's reference this alien from the other show'' and did not put much thought into it.

I'm sure you're right on the limb going out on however I do want to at least bold a possible explanation in your post. Those ships if I remember right were of a decent quality in of themselves even if they weren't being crewed anywhere near optimally. Voyager struggled anytime they turned up, and their ships were in a significantly higher weight class than the Equinox.

There's also that Seven mentioned that the Kazon were deemed to be unworthy of assimilation so no cubes would have bothered them, and it's possible the Hirogen would have hunted a few of them sure, but they're not exactly much of a challenge, and there's way more interesting prey out there.

Add that the Kazon rebellion was a long time back in the past, and that they'd spread out a lot, it's not entirely unfeasable that one of their ships ended up near the Beta quadrant after a whole bunch of generations of intergalactic wandering.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I had no idea that was the case, and I'm absolutely delighted that he Borg didn't find those cabbage patch dolls worth assimilating.

[Nobody700]

For me and the Kazon, I always saw them as a people with NO culture and way of life. Thus, they were a vast nomadic race and DOZENS of war chiefs going around the Delta Quadrant, trying to find anything. Hence while I find the idea they got all the way to Federation space... yeah that's a step too far. That's a 75 year journey and while the Kazon have been around for a while, what are the odds a SINGLE ship headed all that way and survived? WHY would they even do that? At least the Klingons in Voyager had a REASON to head there.

The sad thing is, I ALWAYS felt like the Kazon could have been one of the best written races in Trek. They HAVE no culture, they have no civilization, they're ready to become the Klingons... and they can walk away from that. If Janeway so wished... she could have prevented a Klingon like society in the Delta Quadrant by showing them a better way and making young Kazon wish to become scientists, doctors, artists, and more. The Kazon, alongside Talaxians, could have been a vastly interesting group to parallel as well. As would the Ocampa...

But well, that's a WHOLE different Voyager show.

[hammerofglass]

The sad thing is, I ALWAYS felt like the Kazon could have been one of the best written races in Trek. They HAVE no culture, they have no civilization, they're ready to become the Klingons... and they can walk away from that. If Janeway so wished... she could have prevented a Klingon like society in the Delta Quadrant by showing them a better way and making young Kazon wish to become scientists, doctors, artists, and more. The Kazon, alongside Talaxians, could have been a vastly interesting group to parallel as well. As would the Ocampa...

But well, that's a WHOLE different Voyager show.

That's what makes Alliances such a kick in the teeth. Just the writers going out of their way to say "no we refuse to do anything interesting with our 1-dimensional bad guys".

[clearspira]

For me and the Kazon, I always saw them as a people with NO culture and way of life. Thus, they were a vast nomadic race and DOZENS of war chiefs going around the Delta Quadrant, trying to find anything. Hence while I find the idea they got all the way to Federation space... yeah that's a step too far. That's a 75 year journey and while the Kazon have been around for a while, what are the odds a SINGLE ship headed all that way and survived? WHY would they even do that? At least the Klingons in Voyager had a REASON to head there.

The sad thing is, I ALWAYS felt like the Kazon could have been one of the best written races in Trek. They HAVE no culture, they have no civilization, they're ready to become the Klingons... and they can walk away from that. If Janeway so wished... she could have prevented a Klingon like society in the Delta Quadrant by showing them a better way and making young Kazon wish to become scientists, doctors, artists, and more. The Kazon, alongside Talaxians, could have been a vastly interesting group to parallel as well. As would the Ocampa...

But well, that's a WHOLE different Voyager show.

This is also the greatest plot hole in the Seska plot.

The Kazon as written really do not seem to have anything to offer a Cardassian deep cover agent (presumably Obsidian Order). They do not really have any territory, they do not have any scientists that we see which could have helped her get home quicker, and they are huge misogynists. And not the jokey, played for laughs kind of misogyny of the Ferengi, these are Taliban-level misogynists. No wonder she wanted Voyager so badly - her future prospects for life did not seem to involve much more than being Cullah's wife and baby maker.

Voyager - where potential goes to die. We would have been better off if Seska was a hero character for longer - let the audience get to know her and care for her. Probably the first race that I can see her legit getting along with the most would have been the Krenim.