Sfdebris.net

The cruelest words in the English language are not "if only."
The cruelest words are "It happened before, and it will happen again."
http://sfdebris.com/videos/babylon5/b5s2e18.php

A magnificent and intense episode, I would have gone with a "recommended" stamp instead of "fine" for my rating if I were reviewing it. Of course if I were reviewing the series I would likely use a "letter grade" system instead, giving this one a "B+" or maybe an "A-", but that's beside the point. As Chuck said, it doesn't really advance the overall series arc but it is very memorable. It's very much like the previous season's "Believers" in that way as well as having the death of a child figuring prominently in the story. If you're in a good mood today, this episode (and the aforementioned "Believers") is a sure-fire cure for that.

Hm, I dunno. Death of children aren't really giving me any more sadness than the death of anyone really, except maybe people who actually want to die. In their case I am... erm... kinda happy, I suppose? This whole "children are so precious"-shtick kinda looses it's point when you look into human culture and history outside of the modern-day developed world. We are so used to children being born once, maybe twice to your average female with rarely one of them dying, that they are obviously regarded as more precious by their society, but have a look at a place where a female having a child every year, with half of them dying before they can even start to talk is normalcy. Any death is a sad thing, there's nothing inherently more sad about a child dying. Sure, they had so much more to explore and experience yet, but isn't the same true for anyone really, outside maybe the oldest of the old?

Madner Kami wrote:This whole "children are so precious"-shtick kinda looses it's point when you look into human culture and history outside of the modern-day developed world.

It's a major reason why, as Chuck says, "Children in Babylon 5 have a target painted on their backs." JMS absolutely hates the "Littlest Cancer Patient" trope and took both this and the aforementioned "Believers" to upend it, as it were.

Archanubis wrote:

Madner Kami wrote:This whole "children are so precious"-shtick kinda looses it's point when you look into human culture and history outside of the modern-day developed world.

It's a major reason why, as Chuck says, "Children in Babylon 5 have a target painted on their backs." JMS absolutely hates the "Littlest Cancer Patient" trope and took both this and the aforementioned "Believers" to upend it, as it were.

He does? Well, not really surprised about that. At this point a child appearing in a movie or series, is telegraphing what is going to happen. In fact, this is so prevalent, that it really devalues the attempted point and, at best, leads to an eye-roll.

Madner Kami wrote:Hm, I dunno. Death of children aren't really giving me any more sadness than the death of anyone really,

For the record I don't like kids. I didn't even much like being a kid. However I realize my opinion on such things is kinda rare.

This is another episode that I don't think could've been done on Star Trek. They would've technobabbled up a solution to the cure just in the nick of time, and not have such a downer ending. Unless it was Enterprise, in which case, they'd pat themselves on the back for NOT helping out.

But yeah, kids are not safe around JMS. Babylon 5, Peter and Mary Jane's future kid in "One More Day" ... there's no guarantees here.

Then again, if I'm being fair, Star Trek wasn't always safe for kids, like little girls in pink dresses. But that's another instance where they were right not to save her, so ... yeah that is an unfortunate pattern.

Trinary wrote:Then again, if I'm being fair, Star Trek wasn't always safe for kids, like little girls in pink dresses. But that's another instance where they were right not to save her, so ... yeah that is an unfortunate pattern.

What episode is this referring to?

This episode never really worked for me. I mean it's sad. And yeah (Offscreen) child death. But you know, /shrug

But for me the episode never really had much impact. Call me a cold bastard (You're probably not wrong), but the fact that basically their entire people are willfully walking into oblivion out of pride sort of numbs me to the tragedy. Like, by the scene with the Ambassador you realize that yeah, there's no way these people aren't all dead by the end of the episode, and I have trouble feeling sorry of people who are willfully walking into oblivion out of pride and nothing else.

It's by no means a bad one, but for me it always was just one who was sort of there.

I too would put this as recommended, mostly because I actually remember the plot and the ending, unlike, say "Grey 17 is Missing", which I have to look up on Wikipedia to remember. Or check which plot is "Grail" and which one is "Late Delivery from Avalon". This one packed a punch, for me.