TNG: The Defector

[bronnt]

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t158.php

I was just rewatching this episode. There's a minor, but very neat detail. After meeting with the Defector and informing Starfleet, Picard receives a message back from Starfleet. He goes to take it in his ready room, and asks "Computer, delay time?" The computer informs him that the message was timestamped over 2 hours ago. This means that real-time communication is impossible, so Picard is forced to use his own discretion.

I honestly really like this detail. It's rather unrealistic how it's portrayed that Starfleet can just talk to any ship anywhere basically transmitting FROM anywhere. I'm sure the idea is that the tech is around using subspace relays to speed messages along, but a ship like the Enterprise is always off along the frontier and usually not near developed planets, not enough to just call them up all the time. Unfortunately, I can't recall another single instance of communications delays showing up until Voyager starts establishing communications with Earth.

[Dînadan]

I'm fairly sure there have been other mentions of communication delays, but I'm drawing a blank as to examples. If there are other examples, they have been rare though, and I wouldn't be duprised if most come from the TOS era.

It's probably worth remembering though that

1) TOS was a century earlier, so likely takes place when the relay network is less sofisticated/extensive, hence the higher frequency of being out of realtime communications range.
2) DS9 is set on a station, so once the relay network expanded to include the Bajor-system, it was always in range of a relay accounting for why there was never a delay in that series.
3) although it's mandate was exploration, the Enterprise-D spent a significant part of TNG's run running around the Federation trooping the colours, transporting ambassadors and so forth, so probably spent a significant amount of time in range of the relay network, hence why it rarely experienced a delay on screen.

It's likely that those ships that engaged in actual deep space/long range exploration (such as the Olympia from DS9's 'The Sound of Her Voice') experienced more frequent and more extensive delays and consequently their captains being granted more discretion than Picard was (with some sort of review board once they came back within range of the network of course).

[Robovski]

TOS had several occurrences with time delays, I can't recall specific instances but I remember once it would be weeks. Often this comes up when the Enterprise and Kirk are in trouble with a big problem as part of the exploration mission.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its been a long time since I saw it, but I recall being quite fond of this episode, and even considering his outmaneuvering of the Romulans at the end to be one of Picard's best moments.

Edit: Which is saying quite a lot for me, actually, since Picard is my favorite Star Trek captain.

[bronnt]

Its been a long time since I saw it, but I recall being quite fond of this episode, and even considering his outmaneuvering of the Romulans at the end to be one of Picard's best moments.

Edit: Which is saying quite a lot for me, actually, since Picard is my favorite Star Trek captain.

Yes, absolutely it's a fantastic episode. Adimal Jerok seemed to serve as a model for how all Romulans were eventually played in the TNG-era. He's got that cool self-assurance that tells you he's either absolutely playing you or he's being utterly sincere. There's a certain gravitas in everyone's performance that adds to the magnitude of how important the decisions being made really are.

I'm fairly sure there have been other mentions of communication delays, but I'm drawing a blank as to examples. If there are other examples, they have been rare though, and I wouldn't be duprised if most come from the TOS era.

It's probably worth remembering though that

1) TOS was a century earlier, so likely takes place when the relay network is less sofisticated/extensive, hence the higher frequency of being out of realtime communications range.
2) DS9 is set on a station, so once the relay network expanded to include the Bajor-system, it was always in range of a relay accounting for why there was never a delay in that series.
3) although it's mandate was exploration, the Enterprise-D spent a significant part of TNG's run running around the Federation trooping the colours, transporting ambassadors and so forth, so probably spent a significant amount of time in range of the relay network, hence why it rarely experienced a delay on screen.

It certainly makes sense that TOS experienced communication issues more often. It's a bit perturbing that it's almost never an issue in later TNG at all, where they can just communicate directly with Earth while they're in the middle of nowhere. Like, during "Reunification," the Enterprise is once again sitting on the edge of the neutral zone when they get a communication telling them they need to help evacuate a colony. They're able to immediately get confirmation that it's a false signal meant to lure them away even though they should be hours from any comm relays.

It's a shame since it's a significant plot point in this episode. It's all going to fall on Picard to decide whether Jerok is lying or telling the truth, and you can see Patrick Stewart show just the mildest bit of exasperation that he's not going to get any real guidance from Starfleet Command on what to do. He manages to show that he's feeling the burden without letting it hinder him.

[drewder]

The idea of a relay is stupid to start with. Sure you can use a relay in order to boost the signal strength and distance it can transmit but how is it supposed to "speed up" the transmission? Like if I am throwing you a baseball I can increase the distance I can throw it by putting a person between us and having him rethrow each toss, but doing so will never increase the speed that the ball got to you than if I could singlehandedly throw it the whole distance.

[Madner Kami]

The idea of a relay is stupid to start with. Sure you can use a relay in order to boost the signal strength and distance it can transmit but how is it supposed to "speed up" the transmission? Like if I am throwing you a baseball I can increase the distance I can throw it by putting a person between us and having him rethrow each toss, but doing so will never increase the speed that the ball got to you than if I could singlehandedly throw it the whole distance.

Since long-range communication in Star Trek is handled via subspace-transmissions, that should already answer your question. Within the universe, the transmissions are speed up to warp-speed via those relays and reboostet every so often to keep that speed, travelling at Warp 9.999999999whatever.

As for having a comlink to Earth from the Neutral Zone, that actually makes a lot of sense for a simple reason: This is the border-area that connects your peaceful utopia, to a place were greedy warlike people live, that more than once attacked you out of the blue for no reason. Extending your lines of communication to cover that area, isn't just a good idea, it is vital for survival, as it cuts reaction time and gives you a chance to be aware of an incursion, before it hits a place that you can not afford to loose.

[SuccubusYuri]

You could probably mumbo-jumbo something regarding quantum entanglement and...uh...einstein compensators....something that would just say "we can super bypass this distance from two fixed points"..."fixed being relative"..."and in real space not sub space"...

Quantum entanglement is pretty much the only thing off the top of my head you could finagle into that. You'd be able to instant-transmit to the paired particles and see the exact same information, theoretically speaking. Though that would kind of restrict the buoys as a single network, straight lines shot from Earth, rather than webs that can bounce between nodes. Good news for the switchboard union back in SanFran!

[Dînadan]

. Like, during "Reunification," the Enterprise is once again sitting on the edge of the neutral zone when they get a communication telling them they need to help evacuate a colony. They're able to immediately get confirmation that it's a false signal meant to lure them away even though they should be hours from any comm relays.

To be fair, the Neutral Zone is probably pretty 'long', so it'd depend on where along it the Enterprise was when it received the signal. Remember the Zone was established about ten years after Enterprise and a hundred years before TOS, so part of it is probably fairly close to Earth, Vulcan and the other founding worlds; even if it was distant at the time of the Earth-Romulan War for ships of that time, it'd likely be close for TNG-era ships. This would also explain why the Romulan invasion ships in 'Reunification were able to get to Vulcan so quickly if Vulcan is 'next door' to the Zone for TNG ships.


Of course this is thrown out the window by Nemesis which implies Romulas is far away from Federation space (probably a result of there never being any definitive canon map of the galaxy made during production of the various shows and films to hammer out exact locations of planets, which is probably also why Enterprise decided Q'ronos was less than a week away for an NX-class).

[Madner Kami]

Of course this is thrown out the window by Nemesis which implies Romulas is far away from Federation space (probably a result of there never being any definitive canon map of the galaxy made during production of the various shows and films to hammer out exact locations of planets, which is probably also why Enterprise decided Q'ronos was less than a week away for an NX-class).

There is a map, used in one of the movies and reused in the Goa'Uld-episode of TNG, that is, logically and necessarily, canon:



Quonos being a week away from Earth is just another case of ENT having a severe case of stupid and canon-break. As for the Romulans getting their ships so close to Vulcan without anyone taking notice, they got cloaking technology. They could literally have an entire armada circling Earth and nobody would notice.

Oh, also we know that a star system named Gamma Hydrae is close to both the Federation-Romulan, as well as Federation-Klingon Border Zone. One of the Okudagrams in "The Defector" even shows, that Gamma Hydrae is practically next door to the Romulan Neutral Zone. Gamma Hydrae is a star, 133.8 lightyears away from Earth. At Warp 9, you'd need about 32 days to get there from Earth. At Warp 5 you'd need about 226 days for that distance. Go figure. 1 week to Quonnos my ass. Archer could beat the Millenium Falcon on the Kessel Run...