AU Question: Justice League 2017 Snyder Cut Reception

[Winter]

It's 2017, you are on your way to the theater to watch the new Justice League movie which runs in at about either 2 and a half or 3 hours. It's been a few months since you saw Wonder Woman which itself was a damn good movie and could be seen as a modern classic along with other such great superhero films released this year like Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Thor: Ragnarok, Hugh Jackman's Swan Song Logan and even the fun Lego Batman movie.

So the year ends on Justice League which is more or less faithful to what Snyder intended just at a run time that is better suited for a theatrical runtime. Keep in mind that aside from Wonder Woman the DC Extended Universe's reception has been... mixed. It has it's fans but only Wonder Woman has been an unquestionable hit with mainstream viewers while Man of Steel, Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad had fans and detractors in equal measure.

While the Snyder Cut has been largely well received by fans and critics right now I wonder how much of that is catharsis with everyone just happy to have this film after being told for so long that it was never going to happen? And Personally, I don't think it's any better or worse than BVS which is a film I personally don't really care for.

It's overly violent, doesn't really understand any of the characters and comes off as more interested in spectacle instead of telling a cohesive story. As has been pointed out before there 24 minutes of slow-mo scenes and while that's understandable for the Flash's scenes doesn't make any sense for any other time it's used (did we REALLY need a shot of Lois putting her coffie down in slow-mo or for Hippolyta sliding under a door).

I think it was suggested by Snyder to split this film into 2 movies but there's honestly not enough here to justify that. You can honestly cut 1 and a half hours from this film and lose next to nothing. Honestly the only thing I'd say should stay is the stuff in relation to Cyborg but that's pretty much it and frankly, that would have been FAR better served being in it's own standalone movie instead of being CRAMMED into this film.

So, yeah, I think the film would have gotten a mixed reception and I wonder how well the movie will age as time goes on. BVS' reception HASN'T gotten better with age and is still seen as a mixed bag even though it's been over 5 years since the film was released.

I made this comparison in the other Snyder Cut post on this site but when it was released Star Wars' Dark Empire was VERY well received when it first came out and actually rivaled The Thrawn Trilogy in popularity. Then it became less popular and was seen as the worst story in the series next to the Holiday Special until today where it's mostly remembered as an okay story. Not great but not the worst.

Still, I wonder how the film would have been received if it was released back in 2017 instead of 2021?

[Beelzquill]

I think if a trimmed down version of this movie was released in 2017 as you suggest, it would have been better received but not as praised as this version is now. Interestingly, I think the big change would be Ray Fisher would probably been given more film roles since his contribution as Cyborg in this movie would probably been praised. I think a Cyborg movie would possibly be made, especially it this version would have been more financially successful than the Whedon version. On that question, whether it would be more or less or just as financially successful as the 2017 movie, I honestly don't know. On the one hand it's better but on the other hand it is still the facing the scrutiny that BVS instigated with fans since Wonder Woman was seen as successful without Snyder.

[Winter]

On the one hand it's better but on the other hand it is still the facing the scrutiny that BVS instigated with fans since Wonder Woman was seen as successful without Snyder.

True, but to turn that around Snyder DID help write the story for WW but, as far as I know, Snyder had no in WW 1984 which... wasn't good or at least not nearly as good as its prequel. Snyder is a Master at visuals but not visual storytelling at least IMO. To look at another film he made, Sucker Punch, there are some good ideas but it's pretty clear that he's less interested in the ideas and more interested in the style.

Say what you will about George Lucas but he does have good ideas AND does have the write mind for story and with a little bit of tweaking I think the Prequels could have been amazing as is evident by the Clone Wars which didn't really change that much from the Prequel Trilogy. But with Sucker Punch... I'm sorry but this film has an interesting idea but the film would have to lose MOST of its... Everything just to get to that idea.

American McGee's Alice did something similar and, frankly, handled it SO much better. Visual Sucker Punch is one Hell of a film but character-wise I got nothing but with American McGee's Alice and it's Sequel, Alice: Madness Returns, I captured what mad Alice in Wonderland so engaging which was the characters and just how insane they all were but told it in a much darker tone.

I will say that I do enjoy the Watchmen film and it is one of my all time favorite comic book movies BUT that's mostly to Snyder being, largely, so fanatically loyal to the graphic novel which included all the character arcs. And even then Snyder couldn't help but change the ending which I personally didn't mind the change but I get why so many fans hated it.

Still, regardless I am always interested in what Snyder will do next even if I don't enjoy it so, hey, he has to be doing something right if I'm always interested in his next project.

[McAvoy]

I think it would have been better received than Whedon's. But not as well as it is now. Simple reason is that Snyder's cut is a result of seeing and reading the result of what happened in 2017 when the studio jumps in when Synder had to leave due to family tradegy.

I bet that Snyder would have managed to cut the 2021 version to a more manageable 2 to 2.5 hour version. The slow motion scenes woukd have been cut down, the Bruce Wayne/Aquaman intro would have been cut down, the weird Aquaman townsfolk song would be cut, the Martian Manhunter ending cut, the Joker scene won't exist, and then trimming here and there, you could easily get it down to the 150 minute mark.

And you know what? Probably could be a better movie than the 2021 version since the biggest gripe about it is that it's four hours long with two tacked on endings.

[Beelzquill]

Well, there still is a lot of plotholes in the 2021 version like Darkseid forgetting the ONE planet he lost that has the ANTILIFE EQUATION.

[McAvoy]

Well, there still is a lot of plotholes in the 2021 version like Darkseid forgetting the ONE planet he lost that has the ANTILIFE EQUATION.

Without a doubt. Not so much of a plot hole but Darkseid going down that quick too. He is stronger, more powerful than Superman for the most part. That I think should have been Steppenwolf in that version too.

They kinda make it a bit vague but they act like the motherboxes are unique like they are one of a kind. Are they? Or do they bring them to each planet? The mother boxes were woken up and Steppenwolf came when they did. But it is also implied that Darkseid's forces avoided Earth due to Superman? But Super man's death scream woke them up.

[Beelzquill]

Without a doubt. Not so much of a plot hole but Darkseid going down that quick too. He is stronger, more powerful than Superman for the most part. That I think should have been Steppenwolf in that version too.

I think the explanation was that this was Darkseid when he was young, a brand New God so to speak, and he hadn't gained his full powers like his omega beams yet. I would understand that had he put this in the movie. Seriously, what is it with big movies and refusing to explain important details like this, this seems to happen with so many movies, like the Abrams Star Trek movies, the Star Wars Sequel trilogy, a
and so many others.

They kinda make it a bit vague but they act like the motherboxes are unique like they are one of a kind. Are they? Or do they bring them to each planet? The mother boxes were woken up and Steppenwolf came when they did. But it is also implied that Darkseid's forces avoided Earth due to Superman? But Super man's death scream woke them up.

My comicbook lore is rusty, but I think the motherboxes originally just made Boomtubes, those portals that allow the new gods to travel to other worlds, and the motherboxes might have been activated by Cyborg's dad trying to resurrect Cyborg, then the motherbox scanned the area, sensed Superman which it deemed a threat and then waited for Superman's death, but again, I'm writing the movie for Snyder. Ugh.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I'm not saying Snyder has paid a film school intern to pee in his mouth, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe.

[McAvoy]

Without a doubt. Not so much of a plot hole but Darkseid going down that quick too. He is stronger, more powerful than Superman for the most part. That I think should have been Steppenwolf in that version too.

I think the explanation was that this was Darkseid when he was young, a brand New God so to speak, and he hadn't gained his full powers like his omega beams yet. I would understand that had he put this in the movie. Seriously, what is it with big movies and refusing to explain important details like this, this seems to happen with so many movies, like the Abrams Star Trek movies, the Star Wars Sequel trilogy, a
and so many others.

They kinda make it a bit vague but they act like the motherboxes are unique like they are one of a kind. Are they? Or do they bring them to each planet? The mother boxes were woken up and Steppenwolf came when they did. But it is also implied that Darkseid's forces avoided Earth due to Superman? But Super man's death scream woke them up.

My comicbook lore is rusty, but I think the motherboxes originally just made Boomtubes, those portals that allow the new gods to travel to other worlds, and the motherboxes might have been activated by Cyborg's dad trying to resurrect Cyborg, then the motherbox scanned the area, sensed Superman which it deemed a threat and then waited for Superman's death, but again, I'm writing the movie for Snyder. Ugh.

My thing is this, are the Mother boxes made to be used for each planet so there are many sets out there? Or are the Mother Boxes in the movie the only set?

In the first case, it would work better for the movie if they are not that unique. Just tools for the invasion of planets to be converted into worlds for Darkseid. If they are unique, then it makes less sense for Darkseid to 'forget' about Earth.

To be honest, I think that a small line could have been made that Earth wasn't attacked afterwards because of the Old Gods there. And that Darkseid could have been rendered CGI as a bit different too.

The other thing is how the one Moster Box that made Cyborg, how did that not alert Darkseid's forces? The issue of Steppenwolf knowing there are no Green Lanterns or Superman. Maybe he got that info from the Mother Boxes.

Did Darkseid and his forces knew about the unique abilities Kryptonians had under a yellow sun?

[Beelzquill]

My thing is this, are the Mother boxes made to be used for each planet so there are many sets out there? Or are the Mother Boxes in the movie the only set?

In the first case, it would work better for the movie if they are not that unique. Just tools for the invasion of planets to be converted into worlds for Darkseid. If they are unique, then it makes less sense for Darkseid to 'forget' about Earth.

To be honest, I think that a small line could have been made that Earth wasn't attacked afterwards because of the Old Gods there. And that Darkseid could have been rendered CGI as a bit different too.

The other thing is how the one Moster Box that made Cyborg, how did that not alert Darkseid's forces? The issue of Steppenwolf knowing there are no Green Lanterns or Superman. Maybe he got that info from the Mother Boxes.

Did Darkseid and his forces knew about the unique abilities Kryptonians had under a yellow sun?

Well I would guess that Motherboxes are not unique, if Steppenwolf needed them to conquer worlds, how did he conquer more worlds after Darkseid lost them after all. I actually do think Darkseid was rendered a bit different. In the flashback scene he isn't wearing a shirt and has slightly softer features and in the present day he has harsher features and a more imperial wardrobe befitting a king. The Mother boxes seem to be sapient, given how they try to trick Cyborg later, so maybe it awoke, sensed Superman, and then decided it was an inopportune time to call the nearest new god, presumably Steppenwolf, then BVS happens. Oh wait, didn't Luthor have a weird skype call with Steppenwolf in BVS? It's all so convoluted.