Star Trek: Discovery - spoilery thoughts?

[technobabbler]

Next week's episode might reveal some more things about Lorca ,,,.

I'm 100% fine w/reasonable retcons. But hold onto your butts TOS fans, as next week is the debut of Harry Mudd---and apparently from the teaser he survived a Klingon POW camp.

[LittleRaven]

Ok, I don't HATE the new Klingon design on principle or anything, but I'm really starting to get annoyed with the Klingon parts of the plot.

• The new makeup seems like it's very, VERY hard to act in. This is a big problem. Klingons can be good guys or bad guys, but they're always expressive guys! These new Klingons are very stilted...and I think that's largely because it's the only thing they CAN be given the makeup.
• Look, I get that we actually HAVE a fully developed Klingon language...but I don't think we actually need to USE it all the time. It's bad enough that the actors can barely emote under the makeup...can't they at least turn on the universal translator so they can speak a language the audience can understand?
• The Klingons don't even ACT like Klingons. Kol is kneeing before Voq? Since when do Klingons do THAT? It's not like Klingons never apologize...they do that all the time, but they don't kneel before each other. Nor do they bribe crews away with food. If Kol is convinced that Voq is a weak captain and needs to be replaced, (and frankly, he has reason to) well, Klingons have a protocol to deal with that sort of situation. We've seen it, on screen, plenty of times. It involves a Bat'leth to the chest, not a clandestine bribe.

I'm just very confused. These aliens have very little in common with Klingons...so why are we calling them Klingons? Or if you really WANT Klingons...well, it's not hard to have actual Klingons filling this spot in the story.

[Archanubis]

Ok, I don't HATE the new Klingon design on principle or anything, but I'm really starting to get annoyed with the Klingon parts of the plot.

• The new makeup seems like it's very, VERY hard to act in. This is a big problem. Klingons can be good guys or bad guys, but they're always expressive guys! These new Klingons are very stilted...and I think that's largely because it's the only thing they CAN be given the makeup.
• Look, I get that we actually HAVE a fully developed Klingon language...but I don't think we actually need to USE it all the time. It's bad enough that the actors can barely emote under the makeup...can't they at least turn on the universal translator so they can speak a language the audience can understand?
• The Klingons don't even ACT like Klingons. Kol is kneeing before Voq? Since when do Klingons do THAT? It's not like Klingons never apologize...they do that all the time, but they don't kneel before each other. Nor do they bribe crews away with food. If Kol is convinced that Voq is a weak captain and needs to be replaced, (and frankly, he has reason to) well, Klingons have a protocol to deal with that sort of situation. We've seen it, on screen, plenty of times. It involves a Bat'leth to the chest, not a clandestine bribe.

I'm just very confused. These aliens have very little in common with Klingons...so why are we calling them Klingons? Or if you really WANT Klingons...well, it's not hard to have actual Klingons filling this spot in the story.

There's also the idea that the Klingons - or at least those who follow T'Kuvma - out their dead in sarcophagi and attach them to their ship, "carrying them into battle." Prior shows have depicted Klingons believing that "the body is a shell," they may have rituals to guard the body until the spirit passes on, but generally, its "pry eyes open, growl, roar to the sky, throw the body in the nearest incinerator." They certainly wouldn't have attached the bodies to the hulls of their ship and carry them into battle.

[GandALF]

Well it has been mentioned that they've been in disarray since Archer gave them forehead cooties or whatever, so while they might be unified against the feds they don't have a united KDF or high council to enforce a unified set of rules. And it's not like humans always follow the exact same customs.

[CharlesPhipps]

I seem to recall the Vulcans being pacifists in old Trek. Having a shoot first on EVERY Klingon ship you encounter ANYWHERE including Klingon territory policy seems like... not Pacifism.

One of the show writers pointed out these would be the Vulcan High Command of Enterprise.

Which is kind of insane that between this and Beyond, Enterprise is probably THE most referenced Star Trek series after TOS.

[Rasp]

This show is mostly fine when the 'Klingons' aren't around - stop bringing them up, don't have them on camera, maybe explore more of the impact the war is having on the crew of discovery and then have the 'Klingons' bungle their way into a ceasefire so we can actually go discover something.

We cant end the war - fine - but we CAN stop it from continuing to ruin the show.

Wait wait I have an idea have them accidentally let loose a plague or something that starts turning them into more TOS-like in appearance all the ones it doesn't kill - the resulting shift in momentum means starfleet can push the ceasefire. or better yet make it a plague developed by section 31 like the one they used against the founders. then sometime after Tos they invent a cure that makes they into the TNG+ Klingon.

then we can drop the 'Remain Klingon' ideology down a well to never speak of it again.

This would also mean there is no more pressure to continue developing the spore drive - and we can easily suggest given the data sent back the federation never followed up on it because the kind and cuddly Federation would never approve the use of an engine that runs on animal cruelty now would they?

[GandALF]

then we can drop the 'Remain Klingon' ideology down a well to never speak of it again.

It was already kind of alluded to with the "homo sapiens only club" line in VI and the fact that they maintain their independence throughout the TNG era as an ally rather than a full federation member.

[Broken Fang]

I don't like STD... For me it is mean spirited, everyone are assholes and unlikeable (especially main character), a lot of stupid and unlogic situations. And those Klingons... they looke more like cross between Xenomorths nad Yautja, and they act more like savages, then this proud race from TOS and even the TNG era.

No Star Trek feeling is in here for me (more like Mass Efect feeling is here).

[FemtoCat]

After watching episode four and witnessing one of the most stupid deaths in the entire franchise (Landry's), i am now convinced that the events of the STD are transpiring in the mirror universe (remember, evil == stupid), and this is why:

1. This explains why starfleet from STD is much more technologically advanced than contemporary starfleet from the prime timeline: they had ~100 years to research and to improve on technology they acquired from the Defiant in "In The Mirror, Darkly".

2. It also explains why Sarek adopted Michael, even though Spock from the prime timeline never mentioned her: since humans are the first-class citizens of the empire, being allowed to raise human child would be seen as a privilege, even if it was bothersome for him at times. Furthermore, it would explain why she is so emotionally unstable - for this Sarek she was nothing more than a symbol of his social status (somewhat like adopted african kids are for modern celebrities), so he never really bothered to make her feel loved and cared for, making her act vulcan-like and be well-educated was sufficient for his purposes. It also explains her being send to starfleet instead of allowing her to work in vulcan science academy: Sarek was just getting rid of her. Her telepathic communication with him can be explained as a hallucination of a distressed young woman with severe daddy issues.

3. Klingon attitudes and appearance may also be explained by this theory.
They really ARE being mistreated and abused by starfleet: since terran empire from mirror universe is much more expansionistic, forceful and technologically advanced then the federation, it's possible that by this time klingon space is surrounded on all sides by empire's colonies and starfleet's starships and bases, so they naturally feel threatened.
One can also argue that due to the terran empire aggressive nature, in this universe Klingons were even more desperate to incorporate augmented humans genetic material in themselves, so without the help from NX-01 crew they ended up creating the disease that spread across all of the klingon space, leaving them physically deformed and maybe even causing internal political problems that ended up dividing their society. Would also explain their obsession with purity.

4. There is, of course, an issue of all the characters referring to their government as "The Federation". But what if something similair to dissolution of the soviet union happened to the terran empire? For example, rapid military expansion ended up causing an uprising, the end result of which was parital dissolution of the terran empire and it's rebranding as a "United Federation Of Planets (TM)" along with the formal adoption of the "We are nothing but peaceful explorers, really" doctrine. This will explain the amount of aliens on the ship, Georgiou's character (she's a true believer in the reformation), "We come in peace" slogan, the fact that "Federation" seems to be losing the war, and the fact that Vulcans are allowed to have their own Klingon-greeting equipment. Within the next 10 years a movement to return back to the old ways will emerge (quite possibly because of the war), and that movement will be successful, at least for the short while, until mirror-Spock will start reforming Terran Empire 2.0, leading to it's complete dissolution.

[technobabbler]

i am now convinced that the events of the STD are transpiring in the mirror universe (remember, evil == stupid), and this is why:

i was thinking this too. That there is a small chance that Kurtzmann and company are subverting expectations and trying to be like Westworld or M. Night Shyamalan. Emphasis on small (for me).

STD writers have me hooked, ironically for the wrong reasons. I'm want to see how this train wreck plays out---especially as the showrunners keep harping how everything will dovetail coherently into the TOS universe. Battle of Axanar with Lord Garth?

and not talking about the visual design elements, but the universe building and character arcs. TOS Harry Mudd did not feel like a guy who survived a Klingon POW camp. Sarek/Amanda did not seem like parents who also had a human daughter hidden in the attic. If a big war was only 10 years prior, Politically Incorrect McCoy would have said something nasty about the Klingons in-universe.