'Writer Jennifer Rosner predicts COVID-19 lockdowns will force easy-breezy millennials to grow up.'

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It's just an appeal to anarchy. It's a practical societal system when you don't have complete information, and that's increasingly not the case in society.

And if we're gonna rail on the "entitled and lazy" Millennial stereotype, can we please LET GO of the stereotype all older people are right-wingers? Even classical liberals are too right for the young woke Twitter nuts today. That I object to, strongly.

Oh, there are still plenty of the flower children and MLK-era civil rights activists left to make that stereotype false. But there are definitely areas (especially in the Rural South) where the ratio is noticeably tipped to the right.

And, looking at the members of the Republican party... This might be a 'not all boomers in office are right-wingers, but most right-wingers in office are boomers' situation.

It's just that if you stagnate on moral outlook then you start violating progressive doctrines on the same grounds that right-wingers do by design.

[Captain Crimson]

No, they just want a more egalitarian world and a meritocracy, and consider themselves classical liberals, but that's just too right-wing for certain segments of this country's fanatics and out-of-touch political figureheads.

So, they just to be treated like they're people and be given a fair shot at life? Now, THAT I can agree with.

Well, yeah. The ones I've spoken to, that are self-identified classically liberal anti-SJWs, dislike the "LatinX" terminology as I've stated before, and they think the paternalism from leftist white liberals is as bad as any racism from the right. I mean, they have a point when you try to treat POC as a special case and they see it as, there's a difference between acknowledging a disenfranchised community, and trying to give 'em privilege status, when no one should have that. It's not egalitarian. It's what really just has convinced me the DNC has drifted very far from its core ethos of a color-blind world, not my interactions with white folk, but POC.

Is it so weird? Admiral X has had native credentials dragged into the mud, yet I believe in it, given my own interactions in a state that, unshockingly went red in 2020, and yet voted for a $15 minimum wage increase. I know right libertarians, who align more closely to the classical liberal or conservative Latinos I've met, can be a pain in some ways, but I do at least respect a lot of their viewpoints are grounded in pragmatism and compassion. Well, not ALL of them, mind you, but I've agreed with them on a few points here and there.

The trouble with "meritocracy" is it's only even theoretically achievable if we assume people individually have the same starting point in terms of material resources and training. In other words, you can really only accurately judge merit among people who have similar wealth and upbringing.

This is provably not the case anywhere in the world at this point in time, but in my experience "Classical Liberals" will fight harder than anyone else against any effort to make the playing field even the slightest bit closer to even.

So the answer to "why do all my libertarian friends get treated like crap by The Left" is no more complicated than "they are probably in fact complete assholes who fight against the things they claim to stand for".

Well, they have a point there. Look at how often we have political hires done nowadays where cronyism rules not the day, not qualifications. And going back to the Latinos I've mentioned before? Yeah, turns out they really hate affirmative action. And that's guaranteed to put emphasis on your ethnic background and skin color, not qualifications. By "meritocracy," and bear in mind I couldn't afford to go to college, I infer they mean qualifications, and that should be what matters. That being said, however, that's not the state of society we live in.

I get the general sentiment of it being a class related thing, however, but in my view, cronyism is more especially a general failing of the super tone-deaf coastal liberal elites I've referenced.

[CmdrKing]

You misunderstand, the proposed solution isn’t to simply ignore merit and enact eternal preferential hiring (a much more fraught issue that’s more concerned with controlling for unconscious bias against meritorious minorities than equality)

The proposal is to eliminate unequal starting conditions. That is, massively raising the standards of living among the poorest in the nation and giving them resources and access more in line with to the richest in order to forcibly break the current cycles of inequity wherein poor families have poorer schools and more precarious living conditions, leading to worse outcomes, leading to poor adulthood, return to step one.

If we want to judge the merit of people, their innate talents and drive, then we must control for other conditions. To do else is to imply the poor deserve to be a lesser caste because of events centuries ago.

[Captain Crimson]

I could agree on the unequal starting conditions thing - that being said, different legs of society will disagree on what it is and what causes it and how to fix it.

I've seen Latinos tear into black communities with a vengeance despite admitting how much they feel they are disenfranchised (and I could certainly admit that), and these same Latinos despise BLM with a passion, consider them terrorist groups. NOT "racist white people," mind you - Latinos. Who are supposed to be the core future bloc of the DNC, and yet shows no signs of jumping democratic bandwagon just because they're the alternative to the GOP.

That's the problem when the liberal fanatics at the top just stole the "demographics are destiny" narrative that had payoff in 2008, and then crashed and burned because they ignored too much of thier own mob flanking so that it became racism against whites. I mean, H, as a white guy, looking in on the outside, I have to think the DNC might have something of an abusive relationship to black people, just a tad...

[Draco Dracul]

It should be noted that the term meritocracy was coined as part of a dystopian satire in which the society was theoretically determined by merit, but because those at the top had all the wealth and power they could both determine what qualified as merit and afford to get the best education for thier children resulting in an ossified aristocracy.

[CmdrKing]

It should be noted that the term meritocracy was coined as part of a dystopian satire in which the society was theoretically determined by merit, but because those at the top had all the wealth and power they could both determine what qualified as merit and afford to get the best education for thier children resulting in an ossified aristocracy.

Indeed. But I do understand why the concept appeals to people, so using it as a device to discuss how far short we are of conditions that would even theoretically allow for it is a useful way to break down why people who claim we l exist in one (or would absent drives for diversity in hiring) are usually talking out their ass.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I could agree on the unequal starting conditions thing - that being said, different legs of society will disagree on what it is and what causes it and how to fix it.

Yes. Theoretically speaking, the dilemma of equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome has rent here. It's also not clear cut and dry with Democratic and Republican representation. Republicans are arguably more for opportunity based frameworks, though Democrats are safely institutional about it on a moderate impartial basis in trying to achieve Outcome.

I've seen Latinos tear into black communities with a vengeance despite admitting how much they feel they are disenfranchised (and I could certainly admit that), and these same Latinos despise BLM with a passion, consider them terrorist groups. NOT "racist white people," mind you - Latinos. Who are supposed to be the core future bloc of the DNC, and yet shows no signs of jumping democratic bandwagon just because they're the alternative to the GOP.

Finally, we're getting somewhere. So if you could please provide me with some links that show prominent Latino representation denouncing BLM then I'll start taking this matter seriously.

That's the problem when the liberal fanatics at the top just stole the "demographics are destiny" narrative that had payoff in 2008, and then crashed and burned because they ignored too much of thier own mob flanking so that it became racism against whites. I mean, H, as a white guy, looking in on the outside, I have to think the DNC might have something of an abusive relationship to black people, just a tad...

How do you factor in LBJ era civil rights?

[Captain Crimson]

Yes. Theoretically speaking, the dilemma of equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome has rent here. It's also not clear cut and dry with Democratic and Republican representation. Republicans are arguably more for opportunity based frameworks, though Democrats are safely institutional about it on a moderate impartial basis in trying to achieve Outcome.

I just think we need more alternatives. Not necessarily a parliamentary system, just an actual well-foundationed third party. IMO, that helps open up better outcomes when there's more balance.

Finally, we're getting somewhere. So if you could please provide me with some links that show prominent Latino representation denouncing BLM then I'll start taking this matter seriously.

Can't, only what I hear in my neck of the woods, lol. You could probably find a few in media circles, but I'm not gonna actively hunt out ATM. Probably may not shock some users, though, as the ones I interact with are usually Mexicans and Cubans and, you know, I hate generalizing and stereotypes, but statistics paint them as less liberal or progressive than certain segments of the voting bloc.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Can't, only what I hear in my neck of the woods, lol. You could probably find a few in media circles, but I'm not gonna actively hunt out ATM. Probably may not shock some users, though, as the ones I interact with are usually Mexicans and Cubans and, you know, I hate generalizing and stereotypes, but statistics paint them as less liberal or progressive than certain segments of the voting bloc.

What statistics are you referring to?

[Captain Crimson]

Florida exit polls from 2020 showed Cubans went overwhelmingly for Mr. Trump in certain areas enough to push the state red.

And OFC, Arizona's been red for as long as I can remember, but Mr. Trump boofed himself by pardoning Mr. Arpaio. There was no way that was gonna go over well.