UK passing staunch gender bathroom law

[Thebestoftherest]

What concerns me is transtrenders using this in order to peek on the other side.

Um, what?

As for gender-neutral toilets: I am against them for practical reasons. There's always a queue in front of the women's toilets, there's rarely one in front of the men's toilets. I hate waiting in queues, especially if I just need to release some used water.

Umm wouldn't having more bathrooms mean a shorter line and or less of a queue?

[ProfessorDetective]

What concerns me is transtrenders using this in order to peek on the other side.

Um, what?

As for gender-neutral toilets: I am against them for practical reasons. There's always a queue in front of the women's toilets, there's rarely one in front of the men's toilets. I hate waiting in queues, especially if I just need to release some used water.

Transtrenders, those posing as trans or claiming to be trans as the hip new way to fit in, mostly from younger people. And it is insidious as it does a disservice to the actual people who struggle with their own gender identity.

Really, there have been studies on this.

You got any links to those studies? And any info on who funded them? Cause this feels like the usual kind of fear-mongering that comes up whenever societal norms start budging forward.

[Draco Dracul]

What concerns me is transtrenders using this in order to peek on the other side.

Um, what?

As for gender-neutral toilets: I am against them for practical reasons. There's always a queue in front of the women's toilets, there's rarely one in front of the men's toilets. I hate waiting in queues, especially if I just need to release some used water.

Transtrenders, those posing as trans or claiming to be trans as the hip new way to fit in, mostly from younger people. And it is insidious as it does a disservice to the actual people who struggle with their own gender identity.

Really, there have been studies on this.

Yes because joining a group that is actively oppressed and is the target of hate crimes is totally to fit in and not the result of the intense cis imposed gate keeping of what it means to be trans starting to fall away.

And having more trans people, greater visibility and a group willing to tear down the rigid catagorism that for decades forced trans people to have to prove they are trans enough to a bunch of cis people are bad for trans people.

I'm also sure that queer people feeling safe after major battles on gay rights had been won and more resources starting to go towards the push toward trans rights also had nothing to do with it. /s

Transtrenders aren't real, they're a myth trying to explain why the number of openly trans people is rapidly increasing (across all age brackets, a significant number of older people are coming out, not just gen z kids). It's perpetuated by transphobes and conservative trans people that operate under the delusion that of they through the rest of us under the bus they will be spared.

[Captain Crimson]

Yeah, I can tell you, the majority of people are NEVER going to be LGBT. Sorry, that's just a basic reality. You can scream gender is just a social construct till you're blue in the face, but that doesn't explain basic reproduction and how we have such high numbers without that. I'm all for empathizing with real trans people, but when it's online, you have zero proof the person is who they claim they are and it just makes me mourn that I never experienced the world without connected tech.

Transtrenders are precisely the reason IPs that go woke do badly. Because it's being enforced on people, on writers, on studios, on viewers and readers, to use proper pronouns and to shove in hamfisted and not-subtle trans characters and themes. You could do that through allegory, but this blunt, no, there's a reason the masses reject it. Look at Batwoman, for example. She's a black lesbian character, and always takes the time to stop and tell you every minute. When it's subtle, more people can approach it on their own terms. When it's not, then it's never gonna be mainstream.

Transtrenders are an insidious plague because real trans people need less judgment, more empathy, and counseling on their options. I personally don't mind if a person wants to transition or not, I feel they can make an informed decision on that on their own, and if they wanted my opinion, I'd tell 'em to do what makes 'em happy. And I have no issues with those who have transitioned, I'd never give up good friendships over that, so maybe I'm in the minority, but how many "trans" users on Twitter nowadays will have actually transitioned in the next 20 years? I think it's gonna be rather lower than you think. I think transtenders are doing it as a means of comfort for real trans, which while comforting, also doesn't help long-term. Because it removes that real-world element and encourages uncivility. It makes everyone toxic. Not in a "bigot" way, but because you can't see the eyes of the person you're insulting face-to-face, or lying to, in pretending to be something else, or pushing an agenda.

Let me tell you this. We're not MIND READERS. How is the rest of society supposed to be react when this could very well just be idiotic arrogant kids doing dumb kid stuff, that we all have? We are asked to take on good faith something going on in someone else's head, and regardless of their background, humans can and have lied for gain, since caveman days. The flip side is that you shouldn't just dismiss this stuff too easily, but as a large group, there's no other way to react. That changes when it enters your own home, though, IMO. Like, if my son wanted to become a girl, why would I object? Really. Just so long as she is fully informed before the procedure. That's all I ask.

This isn't prejudice. This is connectivity fostering rampant paranoia. And then somehow we blame others for that when the fault, my dear users, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.

How about a hypothetical scenario I pose. In the future, we understand biology enough for flawless sex change. I do think that the number of people willing to experiment would be higher, but I can still accept it'll never be mainstream. I'd even be tempted to see from the other side of the coin so long as you keep your reproductive ability to which gender you choose. But if it was found by a prospective partner you toyed with that briefly when you were younger, and had a mildly negative reaction, do you call him, or her, a transphobe? Relative to that century or this one?

My sentiment is it's none of our business.

[Draco Dracul]

Yeah, I can tell you, the majority of people are NEVER going to be LGBT. Sorry, that's just a basic reality. You can scream gender is just a social construct till you're blue in the face, but that doesn't explain basic reproduction and how we have such high numbers without that. I'm all for empathizing with real trans people, but when it's online, you have zero proof the person is who they claim they are and it just makes me mourn that I never experienced the world without connected tech.

Was the fact that most people are cisgender and straight in dispute? The goal of LGBT rights isn't to make everybody LGBT, it's to protect our rights so that we can be safe and live freely as who we are. No one is saying that sex is a social construct as gender has nothing to do with reproduction.

Have you considered that many people come out online first because of the anonymity and low risk? Because often time anonymity is revealing rather than obfuscating.

Transtrenders are precisely the reason IPs that go woke do badly. Because it's being enforced on people, on writers, on studios, on viewers and readers, to use proper pronouns and to shove in hamfisted and not-subtle trans characters and themes. You could do that through allegory, but this blunt, no, there's a reason the masses reject it. Look at Batwoman, for example. She's a black lesbian character, and always takes the time to stop and tell you every minute. When it's subtle, more people can approach it on their own terms. When it's not, then it's never gonna be mainstream.

Do they do badly? Because the entire reason that brands are "going woke" is that it makes them huge amounts of money. For decades people said that black superhero movies wouldn't sell and then Black Panther did gang busters, and that is not a movie that even a little subtle with it's messaging. Most of the writers that write queer characters do so because they want to write queer characters often because they themselves are queer. You need to remember that for advertisers the mainstream isn't "everybody" it's people 18-49 and they are not only left leaning on average, especially on social issues, they also have significantly higher LBGT population due to lower attrition as most of them are young enough to avoid Reagan's genocidal treatment of the AIDS crisis, and a more open society letting them be honest with themselves. Like 1 in 6 Americans between the ages 18 and 25 are gay, bi, trans, or nonbinary and they are going to want media that tells their stories.

Transtrenders are an insidious plague because real trans people need less judgment, more empathy, and counseling on their options. I personally don't mind if a person wants to transition or not, I feel they can make an informed decision on that on their own, and if they wanted my opinion, I'd tell 'em to do what makes 'em happy. And I have no issues with those who have transitioned, I'd never give up good friendships over that, so maybe I'm in the minority, but how many "trans" users on Twitter nowadays will have actually transitioned in the next 20 years? I think it's gonna be rather lower than you think. I think transtenders are doing it as a means of comfort for real trans, which while comforting, also doesn't help long-term. Because it removes that real-world element and encourages uncivility. It makes everyone toxic. Not in a "bigot" way, but because you can't see the eyes of the person you're insulting face-to-face, or lying to, in pretending to be something else, or pushing an agenda.

I'll be honest writing off a huge group of trans people as being insincere fakes because they don't meet your standard of trans enough is deeply transphobic and bigoted. And I think most of them are going to transition in some way or another because one can transition without any medical procedures.

Let me tell you this. We're not MIND READERS. How is the rest of society supposed to be react when this could very well just be idiotic arrogant kids doing dumb kid stuff, that we all have? We are asked to take on good faith something going on in someone else's head, and regardless of their background, humans can and have lied for gain, since caveman days. The flip side is that you shouldn't just dismiss this stuff too easily, but as a large group, there's no other way to react. That changes when it enters your own home, though, IMO. Like, if my son wanted to become a girl, why would I object? Really. Just so long as she is fully informed before the procedure. That's all I ask.

What harm is their in taking them in good faith and what does it cost you?

[Captain Crimson]

If you haven't transitioned, you're just not a trans, period, but a poser, and again, how many will have actually transitioned in the next 20 years? Maybe you could claim it has more visibility if we had flawless sex change, that would encourage switching back and forth with ease at no personal damage to onself, but again, we do not have that.

You can throw whatever slurs you want on me, claim I'm a transphobe, a rape apologist, a homophobe, a bigot in all stipes, whatever, I don't care, doesn't bother me. But that's how it starts. That's how people wind up getting caught up in their echo-chamber crusades, lock out other viewpoints, and in the end, we're walking on eggshells trying not to upset other people and have unproductive dialogue that doesn't address the real issues.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

If you haven't transitioned, you're just not a trans, period, but a poser, and again, how many will have actually transitioned in the next 20 years?

What standard are you basing this on? I only ask because you said it and I assume it has meaning, but if not then I'm mistaken and apologize.

[Captain Crimson]

If you haven't transitioned, you're just not a trans, period, but a poser, and again, how many will have actually transitioned in the next 20 years?

What standard are you basing this on? I only ask because you said it and I assume it has meaning, but if not then I'm mistaken and apologize.

Because gender identity struggles as I understand it are very brutal, and very difficult to go through, and who'd wanna remain in a skin they don't feel comfortable in unless they're masochists? The flip side is non-trans people who transition just for the experience. This is why I hate throwing labels on people. It's pointless.

And, honestly, unless it's actually beating down on a helpless child or unarmed spouse, then we have no right to interfere in other people's homes. And yet that's what we're doing nowadays.

[Draco Dracul]

If you haven't transitioned, you're just not a trans, period, but a poser, and again, how many will have actually transitioned in the next 20 years? Maybe you could claim it has more visibility if we had flawless sex change, that would encourage switching back and forth with ease at no personal damage to onself, but again, we do not have that.

Coming out and living as your actual gender is a form of transitioning. Additionally people aren't trans because they transition, they transition because they are trans.

You can throw whatever slurs you want on me, claim I'm a transphobe, a rape apologist, a homophobe, a bigot in all stipes, whatever, I don't care, doesn't bother me. But that's how it starts. That's how people wind up getting caught up in their echo-chamber crusades, lock out other viewpoints, and in the end, we're walking on eggshells trying not to upset other people and have unproductive dialogue that doesn't address the real issues.

A) None of those are slurs.

B)You're point of view is that you want to medicalize and gatekeep a community that you do not belong to.

C) You aren't having to walk on eggshells, you're actively swinging a hammer around a china shop as you are deliberately refusing to take people acting in good faith at their word and calling them fakes.

Because gender identity struggles as I understand it are very brutal, and very difficult to go through, and who'd wanna remain in a skin they don't feel comfortable in unless they're masochists? The flip side is non-trans people who transition just for the experience. This is why I hate throwing labels on people. It's pointless.

Because openly transitioning is often quite expensive and often very dangerous due to transphobic bigots. It can lead to one losing their home, their job, their family, and their friends. Additionally due to how narrowly trans people are depicted in cis media many people can suffer from gender dysphoria for years or even decades and not realize that it is gender dysphoria.

Do you have any examples of non-trans people who transition for the experience, because that something I've literally never heard of.

[ProfessorDetective]

Seriously, when does this happen? I mean, it probably HAS happened, like perverts transitioning just to peep on people, voter fraud in the 2020 elections, or getting crushed by a meteorite, but it's a small enough statistic that anyone who brings it up is probably just looking for a reason to be paranoid.