Wait until sfdebris gets to Stargate Universe.

[thisithis]

The show that killed the Stargate franchise. Stargate Universe lasting only two seasons before it was canceled, And it sucked. There were only two characters that I actually liked.

[Captain Crimson]

Yeah, I don't even mind it was trying to go dark, TBH. Or do something different. No, it's that they were trying too hard to be NuBSG. I mean, the pilot's sex scene made that quite plain, and that the crew is, frankly, a bunch of unlikable a-holes. Like, really. This is grounds SG had already evolved past, and yet here they are, repeating it. They went woke, trying to get the younger demographics that had come in with SGA alongside the older fans, and lost almost everyone. Oh, but INB4 "it was scheduling issues that kept the fans away!" Yeah, sure, and the creatives brushing off fan reaction by citing the critical accolades didn't play a role?

Personally, I wonder what Mr. Chuck's take is gonna be on the Ori, since his latest chronological review is into SG-1 S8, and past that, all we have is one offhand mention in the Abyss review. I know late SG had a tendency to reinvent itself, but honestly, it was so creatively done, it's what modern studios can really only dream of, and I think the Ori represent a far deadlier threat than the System Lords. Just look at the Battle of P3Y-229, just... wow. They really went all out, and just... whoosh. It's no surprise certain Goa'uld, such as Nerus, tried to find their way into the Ori's good graces. Or others like Ba'al, who had his own cunning schemes that involved the Dakara weapon or Merlin's anti-Ori device.

And now we hear rumors of a new TV show. Personally, I think they waited too long. SG wouldn't be welcome in today's environment, where magic and superheroes, not science-fiction, rule the day, with rising distrust in police and military and established authority, where secret conspiracies are less cool than the '90s, and with the desire SJWs have to shove in increasingly trendy progressive social themes the writers are out of their depth to. I think a new SG TV show would not work well.

[Zatman]

Personally, I didn't like SGU Season 1, but I really liked Season 2. I remember for nearly every new episode of season 2, I was talk about how much better they were over the previous ones. I only remember a handful of bad ones. Season 1 was the opposite, the bad outnumbered the good and kind of like Enterprise, S2's success wasn't in time to save the show, or the franchise.

[Captain Crimson]

Personally, I didn't like SGU Season 1, but I really liked Season 2. I remember for nearly every new episode of season 2, I was talk about how much better they were over the previous ones. I only remember a handful of bad ones. Season 1 was the opposite, the bad outnumbered the good and kind of like Enterprise, S2's success wasn't in time to save the show, or the franchise.

True enough, but this is why I've never bought into the "give it time to get better" argument. Frankly, for people who cite TNG, that succeeded despite the odds and we shouldn't make excuses for the poor start it had in '87 because the early corporate hubris eventually abated - until '95.

Because if the audience is alienated very early on, then it's the fault of the writers, no one else, not "toxic fandom" or "bigots." Why should someone care if S2 gets better if S1 turns off viewers?

[McAvoy]

Yeah, I don't even mind it was trying to go dark, TBH. Or do something different. No, it's that they were trying too hard to be NuBSG. I mean, the pilot's sex scene made that quite plain, and that the crew is, frankly, a bunch of unlikable a-holes. Like, really. This is grounds SG had already evolved past, and yet here they are, repeating it. They went woke, trying to get the younger demographics that had come in with SGA alongside the older fans, and lost almost everyone. Oh, but INB4 "it was scheduling issues that kept the fans away!" Yeah, sure, and the creatives brushing off fan reaction by citing the critical accolades didn't play a role?

And now we hear rumors of a new TV show. Personally, I think they waited too long. SG wouldn't be welcome in today's environment, where magic and superheroes, not science-fiction, rule the day, with rising distrust in police and military and established authority, where secret conspiracies are less cool than the '90s, and with the desire SJWs have to shove in increasingly trendy progressive social themes the writers are out of their depth to. I think a new SG TV show would not work well.

First off what show did you watch? Stargate Universe went woke? Do you use that word so much now do you even know what it actually means?

You are making too many assumptions based on your own observations. Your own world view and not reality.

[McAvoy]

The show that killed the Stargate franchise. Stargate Universe lasting only two seasons before it was canceled, And it sucked. There were only two characters that I actually liked.

There is a combination of what killed Stargate. SGU is definitely part of it, a big part of it. Studio interference and MGM money issues were others. Atlantis should have never been canceled even though the show was doing OK.

Universe itself just felt so different from the other Stargate in its tone and how the episodes were made, it's premise and it's characters. That threw off alot of fans. This isn't a TNG to DS9 difference and I don't think there is an apt comparison like this. Maybe someone else knows of one? Doctor Who?

It took the fans who loved SG-1 and Atlantis in how the series was protrayed and just dumping all of that to be edgy or something.

[Captain Crimson]

I must confess, I think I may have let my irritation with modern Western media get the better of me, and I'm sorry for that.

That being said, however, SGU ended in 2011. Not so far removed from what we have today, and it feels all too prevalent to the sins of Hollywood too.

Why do I call it woke? Woke definition is trying to call attention to certain issues, is it not? Well, SGU was made to be marketed to the younger demographics, much like the IPs they have stripped down today, and IMO, they added a lesbian character for that reason. Not out of artistic aspiration, but only as a means to draw in, what the focus groups and statistics surveys tell them all the time, is a younger, "more progressive" audience, which is an issue, because they really don't hang around. And in some respects, SGU's numbers reflect this.

Woke to me is also accompanied by deflection - there's something wrong with YOU for disliking this. I mean, it wasn't as hamfisted as today, but the creatives spin-doctoring to cite the critical acclaim SGU got was, IMO, much of the same way, just far less divisive than it is today.

But then I could be wrong. I'm fallible, don't take my views as Gospel. It's just, like, my opinion.

[Rocketboy1313]

"Stargate Universe" certainly had some good ideas, but good heavens does Stargate by way of "Battlestar Galactica" not make sense.

The tones are so distant from one another. As apocalyptic as SG-1 or Atlantis could get (I mean, Anubis almost pulled a Thanos on the galaxy) it never felt as bleak as Universe did at its brightest.

There is no real comparison in fiction because I can think of no other franchise that took such a turn. Maybe Dc comics with the Death of Superman and Batman getting his back broken? The 90's went real dark in comics. But even that is a stretch because the whole point of those lows were so that Superman and Batman could come back and establish a bright status quo again.

Stargate only promised to get darker.

[Captain Crimson]

Yeah, while I could accept Jack was into black ops stuff in the '80s, I can't buy him thinking this way since he first stepped through the Stargate, and became a general. If the Destiny was trapped, he'd wanna get them back and replace them with an actual qualified team. The only way I could buy this would be if he was set to retire and stopped caring.

[McAvoy]

I must confess, I think I may have let my irritation with modern Western media get the better of me, and I'm sorry for that.

That being said, however, SGU ended in 2011. Not so far removed from what we have today, and it feels all too prevalent to the sins of Hollywood too.

Why do I call it woke? Woke definition is trying to call attention to certain issues, is it not? Well, SGU was made to be marketed to the younger demographics, much like the IPs they have stripped down today, and IMO, they added a lesbian character for that reason. Not out of artistic aspiration, but only as a means to draw in, what the focus groups and statistics surveys tell them all the time, is a younger, "more progressive" audience, which is an issue, because they really don't hang around. And in some respects, SGU's numbers reflect this.

Woke to me is also accompanied by deflection - there's something wrong with YOU for disliking this. I mean, it wasn't as hamfisted as today, but the creatives spin-doctoring to cite the critical acclaim SGU got was, IMO, much of the same way, just far less divisive than it is today.

But then I could be wrong. I'm fallible, don't take my views as Gospel. It's just, like, my opinion.

OK they added a lesbian to the show. So now instead of a show of presumably straight people, now they got a gay character. So what? Did they make a big deal out of it or did they make it as natural as they could? Did they make it look as normal as any straight character relationship?

Heaven forbid a gay character can be shown on TV without someone saying 'look they are going woke'.

I guess they are better as background characters.