Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

This forum is for discussing Chuck's videos as they are publicly released. And for bashing Neelix, but that's just repeating what I already said.
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SuccubusYuri
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

Post by SuccubusYuri »

excalibur wrote: I was basically point out that regardless what purpose a Federation starship is for, it's name and registry would be in a database that all ships would have so it can be identify. We've seen it before in episodes where they immediately identify destroyed or lost ships. Also remember, Starfleet is both a faux military organization. They have pretty good record keeping on who does what in the fleet. Seriously, In Voyager, they were able to check their database for the Equinox, a ship that was lost in the Delta before they were.
Eh I would say there's some difference between registry numbers and flight logs. Like I said I don't know TNG very well, I'm sure there were some instances where they pulled it out of a console. Identifying craft isn't the same as knowing it's mission specs, just knowing what is and isn't friendly fire purposes.

Though even Equinox would be a bad example, as has been pointed out before, they have to rely on Janeway's memory for ships that were lost. We don't get the impression Equinox was on a list of Voyager's Most Wanted after Tuvok did a thorough search of the database and found every missing ship from a 50LY radius of the badlands, for example. Over the five years since that question was first asked, that doesn't seem like a tall order. Or no, not Tuvok. Tom. Definitely Tom. Even with the crazy fleet numbers DS9 inflated it to.
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CareerKnight
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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excalibur wrote:The plot hole for me was, why didn't the DS9 crew search the crashed ship's name in their database?
Why? Why would they bother to look up the ship? What information would it give them that would be helpful in this situation and what reason would they have to do it in the first place unless they think she is lying? As others have already said the fact that she is unaware of the war shouldn't really be a red flag considering her ship was on a long term exploration mission and would likely be out of contact with Star Fleet. The stardate isn't likely to come up naturally in conversation either (Dînadan hypothetical conversation would be kind of insensitive to say before she was safe and out of the people she talks to only season one Bashir would be that clueless).
bronnt wrote:I liked this episode the first time I saw it, but the last time I watched it, I got really irritated by something. It was so obvious to me that it became grating more and more throughout the episode: Captain Cusak is very much a Mary Sue.
No, she's not. Mary Sues are a problem because they are the story, the story is just about them and how awesome the author thinks they are (often to the point that the author doesn't even try to get the audience on board before going full speed ahead). Sues are the most important person in the story to the point that the other characters don't matter and will often go against their established traits for the benefit of the Sue. This is a good story, nothing is sacrificed just to make Capt Cusak look good. The story isn't even about her as Chuck said but about the main cast and how the war has been effecting them. It also has a B plot, something that wouldn't really happen if the story was about the Sue unless it consisted of nothing but the characters asking each other "Where is Poochie?"
she makes everyone's lives better just by talking to them.
Of course she does, she is personable and likable and hasn't been beaten down by the war (and we're not told these things, they are genuine traits as the people in this thread have said). People who have been beaten down by war usually have one of two responses to a person like that. Either finding them a breath of fresh air and a much needed moral boost or finding them annoying and unrelatable. The former is far more likely in Star Trek (though if you want the latter, Siege of AR-558 has you covered).
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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CareerKnight wrote:
bronnt wrote:I liked this episode the first time I saw it, but the last time I watched it, I got really irritated by something. It was so obvious to me that it became grating more and more throughout the episode: Captain Cusak is very much a Mary Sue.
No, she's not. Mary Sues are a problem because they are the story, the story is just about them and how awesome the author thinks they are (often to the point that the author doesn't even try to get the audience on board before going full speed ahead). Sues are the most important person in the story to the point that the other characters don't matter and will often go against their established traits for the benefit of the Sue. This is a good story, nothing is sacrificed just to make Capt Cusak look good. The story isn't even about her as Chuck said but about the main cast and how the war has been effecting them. It also has a B plot, something that wouldn't really happen if the story was about the Sue unless it consisted of nothing but the characters asking each other "Where is Poochie?"
After some reflection, I suppose I agree. But there is something grating about how she manages to perfectly get along with EVERYONE, when we're seeing how the relationships between people on the Defiant have been pushed to an edge. And there certainly does seem to be a lot of over-the-top praise of her when their experience with her was limited to a few conversations over a period of a few days.
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SuccubusYuri
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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Well from most of their situations it does make sense. For O'Brien, she presents him with an old fashioned techno-science-interferometric-hyggs-wanker problem of the TNG variety, not how to patch up holes in the bloody ship or detail manifests because of war rationing for industrial equipment. Which he probably sees a welcome respite and nostalgia for better times. For Sisko he can open up to a fellow command officer for the first time since these recent issues with Cassidy, something that, while many of his colleagues are sympathetic to, won't QUITE understand as much as a fellow captain will. And general human psychology, when you feel in a rut something fresh is nice to cling to.

I mean it pretty accurately predicts the direction of online friendships, at a time when that still wasn't really a thing for most people.
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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bronnt wrote: After some reflection, I suppose I agree. But there is something grating about how she manages to perfectly get along with EVERYONE, when we're seeing how the relationships between people on the Defiant have been pushed to an edge. And there certainly does seem to be a lot of over-the-top praise of her when their experience with her was limited to a few conversations over a period of a few days.
If you'd been stuck on a tiny ship for weeks with less than 50 other people, wouldn't you be happy to have anyone new to talk to?
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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I really don't see the problem there. She's a cheerful personality and a goof-ball and she listens to their problems, while being absolutely thrilled that these guys are Warp9.9999999999999ing towards her. If she's even a little bit of a social chameleon, then they would inevitably bond.
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

Post by Wolf359 »

Pretty sure Lisa's ship was the USS Olympia, not Olympian. Maybe it was Olympic-class as well?

Enjoyed the review though, could have done without the Quark/Jake/Odo stuff, I'm really not interested in seeing them play fight yet again.

I did enjoy that at Lisa's wake, when they were talking about people dying, the shot cut to Jadzia! It's almost as though they're expecting her to die next week or something...

I liked the appearance of the Defiant's new shuttle, although I wonder why they didn't just use the ones we saw in "The Search". Other than fitting 3 people, the shuttle didn't do anything requiring it to be different (The Enterprise-D shuttlepods could fit as many as the plot required). That drop
Shuttlebay and the now three shuttle pods must take up a fair chunk of the Defiant's interior though, so say nothing of the door having been the tractor beam before. Nice to know Starfleet has nothing better to do during a war than come up with new shuttle designs and piss around refitting their main line of defence for DS9 for no reason.

I agree with others that Defiant should have continued to get radio calls front Lisa even as Sisko was stood over her dead body. Nice little detail was that she was wearing the TNG style uniform, which fits with when the Olympia departed.
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Madner Kami
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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Wolf359 wrote:Pretty sure Lisa's ship was the USS Olympia, not Olympian. Maybe it was Olympic-class as well?
Nope. A part of the wreck is seen, as far as I am aware, showing a large saucer-section, which rules out the Olympic's sphere-design. Further investigation reveals, that they reused the model of the wrecked Enterprise from "Search for Spock", technically leaving the USS Olympia as a Constitution II-class.
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

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bronnt wrote:She's untainted by the nasty war that's going on and is a relic of a happier time. And then of course she has to die at the end, because she's way too good for this sinful galaxy. She was never going to live in a galaxy at a war, that would just sully her.
The reasons she's not a Mary Sue have already been covered, so I won't retread that. Regarding this bit though, given the timeline of the episode (she thinks she's been gone for 8 years but in reality has been closer to 11), it's entirely possible that she could have served in the Cardassian War and the war with the Tzenkethi (although she did have the good fortune of not being around for the Borg Scare).
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SuccubusYuri
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Re: Star Trek (DS9): The Sound of Her Voice

Post by SuccubusYuri »

I mean that explains why she's dealing with Sisko as the first Starfleet captain she's met in years.

"Well there's a war with the Dominion now."
"Wow that sounds terrible."
"It's really the Cardassians fault."
"I thought we fixed that with the peace treaty before we left?"
"Yeah about that..."
"Well as long Federation citizens are free from terror it's all worth it."
"Let me tell you about the Borg..."
"Jesus tap dancing CHRIST Ben, why would you tell me about that?"
"Real life came knocking. He rang and ran. I'm still here."
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