Watching ST all the way through (on DS9 Season 5)

[Thebestoftherest]

Umm, no not really.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Is it possible that the Eugenics Wars were instigated by the alien agent somehow?

[Thebestoftherest]

Yes because giving an easy scale goat for humanity flaws is a good idea

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes because giving an easy scale goat for humanity flaws is a good idea

Not seeing you come up with any.

[Thebestoftherest]

Yes because giving an easy scale goat for humanity flaws is a good idea

Not seeing you come up with any.

Let's compare the ideas.
Your idea: human does words because aliens make them.

Better ideas: Humanity does war because there those in power who can profit in it in one way or another.
A group of argoant human use it to spread their ideals of purity while hunting down those weaker than them.
A religious cult gain power and willing to let innocent dies for their cause.
Humanity in a mess because a political mess that no one wants nore can get out of.


Which is a better story idea?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes because giving an easy scale goat for humanity flaws is a good idea

Not seeing you come up with any.

Let's compare the ideas.
Your idea: human does words because aliens make them.

Better ideas: Humanity does war because there those in power who can profit in it in one way or another.
A group of argoant human use it to spread their ideals of purity while hunting down those weaker than them.
A religious cult gain power and willing to let innocent dies for their cause.
Humanity in a mess because a political mess that no one wants nore can get out of.


Which is a better story idea?

I'd say the one that you misrepresented less.

[Beastro]

Yes because giving an easy scale goat for humanity flaws is a good idea

Not seeing you come up with any.

Let's compare the ideas.
Your idea: human does words because aliens make them.

Better ideas: Humanity does war because there those in power who can profit in it in one way or another.
A group of argoant human use it to spread their ideals of purity while hunting down those weaker than them.
A religious cult gain power and willing to let innocent dies for their cause.
Humanity in a mess because a political mess that no one wants nore can get out of.


Which is a better story idea?

That's still scapegoating humanity.

Your position is that humanity is fundamentally good and just misled. You free people of that and they'll be fine.... which calls into question how they fell into those pitfalls in the first place. I dispute that inherent goodness at least partially: The line between good and evil runs down each of our hearts.

It's not that people are manipulated into doing bad things, they often want to do them themselves and repeat the cycle without realizing it. Even if we could be freed of it, we'll fall back into it because of how corrupting our nature is. Just as all empires fall, even the good we make fails eventually.

That is the lost issue so often with tolerance: it isn't to tolerant *enter notable persecuted minority group here*, but those you actively don't want to understand and wish would be done away with. Everyone needs to think about those they do not want to listen to, do not want any influence in society, do not want to exist, and those are who need tolerance the most.

The spirit of Trek wasn't that the elite manipulated mankind into doing bad things and are now free of them, it recognized however naively, that mankind had inherent issues and need to overcome those to be better even if they remain flawed. The problem was Roddenberry went too far because of his own personal demons and started insisting on perfection, something which ironically, highlights how flawed we are: The money grubbing womanizer apparently hated himself for those qualities in him.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

yeah srs

[Thebestoftherest]

Yes because giving an easy scale goat for humanity flaws is a good idea

Not seeing you come up with any.

Let's compare the ideas.
Your idea: human does words because aliens make them.

Better ideas: Humanity does war because there those in power who can profit in it in one way or another.
A group of argoant human use it to spread their ideals of purity while hunting down those weaker than them.
A religious cult gain power and willing to let innocent dies for their cause.
Humanity in a mess because a political mess that no one wants nore can get out of.


Which is a better story idea?

That's still scapegoating humanity.

Your position is that humanity is fundamentally good and just misled. You free people of that and they'll be fine.... which calls into question how they fell into those pitfalls in the first place. I dispute that inherent goodness at least partially: The line between good and evil runs down each of our hearts.

It's not that people are manipulated into doing bad things, they often want to do them themselves and repeat the cycle without realizing it. Even if we could be freed of it, we'll fall back into it because of how corrupting our nature is. Just as all empires fall, even the good we make fails eventually.

That is the lost issue so often with tolerance: it isn't to tolerant *enter notable persecuted minority group here*, but those you actively don't want to understand and wish would be done away with. Everyone needs to think about those they do not want to listen to, do not want any influence in society, do not want to exist, and those are who need tolerance the most.

The spirit of Trek wasn't that the elite manipulated mankind into doing bad things and are now free of them, it recognized however naively, that mankind had inherent issues and need to overcome those to be better even if they remain flawed. The problem was Roddenberry went too far because of his own personal demons and started insisting on perfection, something which ironically, highlights how flawed we are: The money grubbing womanizer apparently hated himself for those qualities in him.

Just figure it a good way to show how we went from today to the world of trek even if the timeline doesn't jell.

[McAvoy]

Or they change it to another label for WW3. Which means altering Trek Canon to make it work. But at least that would be 30+ years from now. Probably could makd it topical.

To be fair, it's not as if they retconned the early history of Trek before, first wedging in a WW3 and then straight up showing no war in the 90s...

True. There are fan theories out there about the 90's Eugenics Wars why it didn't look like there was a war when Voyager took a visit.

Personally I'd rather just have the two wars merged together. Maybe the Eugenics War led right up to WW3. Like it ended a four years before WW3 or something.