Was Finn Wasted in the Disney Sequel Trilogy?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Like a shark meandering aimlessly in the water.

[MaxWylde]

Totally, but not only this, but they missed a great opportunity to give some life to Stormtroopers where they didn't have much in the way before.

If Finn was well-trained, enough that his capabilities as a soldier would shine through, then you'd have a different character altogether. He would know things about combat that the other characters probably wouldn't, and he might be a lot more prudent than he was in the films. If they wanted to give him this conflict of whether or not to fight for the Rebellion (erm...I won't call it the Resistance), fine, but don't make him this guy who's crazy for Rey for no good reason other than the plot needs him to, or hormones.

I would think that being a brain-washed man indoctrinated into the Empire's ways of combat would also have misgivings about fighting his own former comrades. It ought to be tough to suddenly erase all that as if it doesn't matter from the beginning of The Force Awakens on out.

Finn should've been the Han Solo of this series. You need the Expert, the Lancer, someone who can give the Protagonist (Rey) some guff like Han did with Luke in A New Hope.

[Deledrius]

but don't make him this guy who's crazy for Rey for no good reason other than the plot needs him to, or hormones.

What movie did you watch? This was not in any of the three sequel films. He was overly-attached (to her and Poe) and protective of her in TFA, but there was no "hormone crazy". They barely interacted in TLJ (yet another of the film's massive list of failings), and his interactions with her in TRoS were limited to him trying (and constantly being interrupted) to confide in her about the force sensitivity that TFA introduced and TLJ dropped (because of course it did) and TRoS attempts to resurrect (and then use in the final act). There was literally not a single moment where his character showed any "crazy for" Rey or anyone else. Finn was, out of the main trio, completely asexual in his onscreen characterization. His motivations and passions were not romantic in a modern sense, but pertained to things like duty and loyalty and protecting others.

Is this hormone thing from some fanfic that's been accepted as headcanon in some portions of the fandom or something? It is not in the movies, not even if you squint and tilt your head. Any reading that concludes otherwise is entirely a fabrication.

[McAvoy]

Finn had alot of potential and alot of ways to make his character interesting. Brainwashed stormtrooper who broke out of it? Cool. Potentially highly trained and experienced in how the First Order works? Cool. Possibly Force sensitive? Cool. Possibly having misgivings in fighting his own 'brothers and sisters'? Cool. Maybe making him into a couple of at least bromance with Poe? Cool.

So much could have been with him.

I think it would have been interesting if Finn was skilled in using melee weapons like that one stormtrooper where when he fought Kylo he held his own and even pushed back. Maybe Kylo would have noticed something about him suggesting he is Force sensitive or something.

Nah... He is a token black guy in Star Wars by Episode 9.

[MaxWylde]

but don't make him this guy who's crazy for Rey for no good reason other than the plot needs him to, or hormones.

What movie did you watch? This was not in any of the three sequel films. He was overly-attached (to her and Poe) and protective of her in TFA, but there was no "hormone crazy". They barely interacted in TLJ (yet another of the film's massive list of failings), and his interactions with her in TRoS were limited to him trying (and constantly being interrupted) to confide in her about the force sensitivity that TFA introduced and TLJ dropped (because of course it did) and TRoS attempts to resurrect (and then use in the final act). There was literally not a single moment where his character showed any "crazy for" Rey or anyone else. Finn was, out of the main trio, completely asexual in his onscreen characterization. His motivations and passions were not romantic in a modern sense, but pertained to things like duty and loyalty and protecting others.

Is this hormone thing from some fanfic that's been accepted as headcanon in some portions of the fandom or something? It is not in the movies, not even if you squint and tilt your head. Any reading that concludes otherwise is entirely a fabrication.

Well, I'd ask you a similar question; what movie were you watching? At the point where Finn meets Rey, she beats him up and knocks him down. But thereafter, he's quite protective of her, as you said, but something has to explain his behavior. He's strangely got some sort of thing for her, obviously; I mean, the man did ask her if she had a boyfriend. You don't ask that question unless you're hoping for something a bit more.

And, frankly, their "chance" meeting was a bit too "forced." As if they read the script. Boy-howdy, it's really so convenient for them to meet as they did, and then as they need to escape, WOW, there's the Millennium Falcon just sitting there! Ready to be flown! Then, just as they inexplicably, for no earthly reason except Rey is a Mary Sue, they escape from Jakku, only to run into....Han Solo and Chewbacca! What are the odds, 3PO?

The plot needed Finn to meet Rey, so it was forced, and then Finn has to be inexplicably attracted to her. It's fine if he's attracted to her, but this is a former Stormtrooper, who's on the run from the Empire. Though he does want to go away when they get to Maz's planet, he can't because, wow oh wow! Convenience again! The Empire and the Rebels have spies there just strangely waiting for them to show up! Wow. Just, Wow! So we get a little fight; the Empire shows up, Kylo captures Rey, and Finn gets to fight his own people with a lightsaber. Gotta keep that action going so that we don't question this plot, do we, J.J.? Finn can't just walk away now, because Convenience just won't let him!

He's tied to Rey, for no reason other than maybe he's attracted to her, and I admit that's specious and forced because this man is supposed to be a former Stormtrooper on the run, a professional soldier, who ought to know how to keep his emotions in check from other priorities, like escape and survival. Rey ought to be nobody to him; sure, they conveniently survived a fight and then survived Han Solo's little thing, conveniently, but other than that she's nobody. He wants to be with her for no reason other than the plot needs him to be with her, and even that is specious.

It should've been the other way around. Rey should've sought Finn out for help. Maybe he helps her escape the Empire, and she follows him because that's where someone is capable of protecting her is. After all, Luke and Ben sought out someone like Han Solo to get them off of Tattooine. Maybe Rey and Finn could've found someone to get them off of Jakku?

[McAvoy]

That's all on Abrams on the convienent stuff in TFA. He doesn't much thought into the hows and whys of each scene. He just wants to go to the next one. If he can add some fan service, even better.

[MaxWylde]

That's all on Abrams on the convienent stuff in TFA. He doesn't much thought into the hows and whys of each scene. He just wants to go to the next one. If he can add some fan service, even better.

Yeah. Maybe I was a bit strong saying that Finn was crazy about Rey, but honestly how else am I to interpret his motivations in this movie? Abrams wants to get on with this movie's plot so much, all the while keeping his "mystery boxes," (such as Anakin's Lightsaber inexplicably and conveniently being with Maz for her to give to Finn) that he doesn't really want us to know he has no real new story.

There are other ways to use Finn. The idea of him being a former-Stormtrooper is so good because it's new; we really hadn't seen anything like that before in these films. But Abrams and Johnson just waste this potential, this interesting point of view, a perspective we hadn't gotten before.

One idea I was really hoping for about Finn was an internal conflict in that he just broken, somehow, the conditioning he got to become a Stormtrooper, but that's a hard thing to let go. His friends are with the Empire, they're his family, for all intents and purposes, and to fight against them ought to be a challenge for him to do. At the same time, why should he have any love for the Republic? Who are they to him? He should have decades of indoctrination telling him that he should hate them, or at the least have some contempt for them. There should always be this yearning to return to his comrades, the ones he knew, and at the same time he ought to also question the Empire and their motivations, all the while challenged by his new friends about what the Republic means to them. The possibilities of where this could all go are awesome to consider. Maybe Leia is the one who brings him over, and if Finn could break his conditioning, so could other troopers.

And he ought to have goals outside of it all, to include any association with Rey and Poe and the others. Maybe he could develop some on his journey? Anyway, it was a missed opportunity to tell something awesome.

[McAvoy]

That's all on Abrams on the convienent stuff in TFA. He doesn't much thought into the hows and whys of each scene. He just wants to go to the next one. If he can add some fan service, even better.

Yeah. Maybe I was a bit strong saying that Finn was crazy about Rey, but honestly how else am I to interpret his motivations in this movie? Abrams wants to get on with this movie's plot so much, all the while keeping his "mystery boxes," (such as Anakin's Lightsaber inexplicably and conveniently being with Maz for her to give to Finn) that he doesn't really want us to know he has no real new story.

There are other ways to use Finn. The idea of him being a former-Stormtrooper is so good because it's new; we really hadn't seen anything like that before in these films. But Abrams and Johnson just waste this potential, this interesting point of view, a perspective we hadn't gotten before.

One idea I was really hoping for about Finn was an internal conflict in that he just broken, somehow, the conditioning he got to become a Stormtrooper, but that's a hard thing to let go. His friends are with the Empire, they're his family, for all intents and purposes, and to fight against them ought to be a challenge for him to do. At the same time, why should he have any love for the Republic? Who are they to him? He should have decades of indoctrination telling him that he should hate them, or at the least have some contempt for them. There should always be this yearning to return to his comrades, the ones he knew, and at the same time he ought to also question the Empire and their motivations, all the while challenged by his new friends about what the Republic means to them. The possibilities of where this could all go are awesome to consider. Maybe Leia is the one who brings him over, and if Finn could break his conditioning, so could other troopers.

And he ought to have goals outside of it all, to include any association with Rey and Poe and the others. Maybe he could develop some on his journey? Anyway, it was a missed opportunity to tell something awesome.

I wasn't really commenting about whether Finn has some sort of thing for Rey. Just how Abrams doesn't give much thought into each scene as long as it leads to the next and then the next.

All of the mystery boxes he did in this movie can easily be explained as him not having the attention span to figure out why that happened and how it happened.

The scene with the Millennium Falcon? That could have been tweaked where Rey and Finn accidently stole it from Han and Chewie and of course they go after them to take back the Falcon. Han being on Jaku? You can insert any reason for that. Not great but it makes more sense.

Anakin's/Luke's lightsaber? He already had one that he made himself. This was just a nostalgia scene dressed as being important somehow. That could have easily been random Jedi lightsaber from 200 years ago.

[MaxWylde]

The mystery boxes could be explained....if there was a plan for them from the beginning.

The whole thing about J.J.'s Mystery Box idea is that he often has no plan on how he's going to reveal anything, because he wants everything to be epic somehow. He loves the idea of a mystery, the interest in it, as if that's all he thinks he needs. That's not how you write a mystery; you should already know what the answers are. Hitchcock would never have put a mystery box in his shows without a plan. The mystery has to be solved, or at least addressed.

J.J., though, was afraid of having the OT characters upstage the new ones. He said so repeatedly; this is the reason why Jake doesn't have any lines when he meets Rey on the island. He didn't want Jake Skywalker there to upstage Rey. Well, the problem is that this is a sequel, J.J., and it's a continuation of stories about people we grew to love from the OT, and they have to be addressed instead of brushed aside. The audience is expecting to see these people again and find out what happened to them for the last 30 years since we saw them on screen.

There were a lot of ways to handle it. I saw a rumored rejected concept for the new trilogy that, if it were true, would've been much much better. It handles the OT characters with respect, addresses the threat of Snoke (without ol' Palpy), and would've handed the torch off to the new characters in a good way.

[McAvoy]

Wait... He didn't want the OT cast to upstage the new cast? Isn't that his job and the writers job to make it so that the new cast can stand on their own? You could easily write a script to have the OT cast at least together once even for a 20 minute scene and not upstage the new cast.

Like the OT cast sitting in a room together without the new cast involved. Basically create a scene of what happened in the past 30 years. Maybe have Han mentioning to Leia that the New Republic could have nipped the First Order in the bud if policians weren't so slow in action. Or anything.

Abrams has a style of writing and directing. It's a type of directing where your attention span is less than a minute. Best not to think about it. TFA is no different. He created these mystery boxes without really thinking of a good way to solve them.