CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 am
I am trying to be generous that at least some fans are just of the mind the Doctor should be a certain way.
But the reaction was generally, "Oh my god, THE FEMINISTS HATE DOCTOR WHO!"
Which is....a bizarre take on wanting a different take with the Doctor. A character inherently malleable.
OK, Doctor Who, the character goes through a bunch of bodies over the decades and fans bitch about out of all of that one of them is female?
I am a person who probably watched only two or three episodes, so I have no idea the history of the show.
This sort of thing strikes me as the same reaction when rumor talk starts talking about a female Bond.
Though a general consensus is that Idris Elba is a damn near perfect Bond. Though too old now.
James Bond is a misogynistic dinosaur and a relic of Cold War as ''M'' put it in ''Goldeneye''. That is his character. That has ALWAYS been his character. He is an assassin who uses and sometimes even abuses women. He was married only once - the rest of the time he is a ''pump and dump'' who literally never sees these women again.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE to have a female James Bond without fundamentally changing her character. True, you could have her be a misandrist, but society views that so completely differently to misogyny its unreal. KillAllMen is a hashtag that frequently trends on Twitter as a joke. Social media would ignite if KillAllWomen were to trend. There is where we are right now.
And BTW, unless you are living under a rock there are tens of thousands of female led shows out there. There is no argument for a sex change beyond politics.
Having Bond become a woman is certainly political. It would really change the whole Bond character.
Yet, there is still backlash about making him a black man even for a few movies.
Yeah but here's the thing: whatever argument you want to make for Dr Who does not apply to Bond because he is meant to be the same guy between every film. The only gap is between Brosnan and Craig and even then I am not sure if the reboot was retconned or not as in ''Skyfall'' the ''Goldfinger'' DB5 was used. The ''Bond is just a codename'' thing has been disproven multiple times from Moore being affected by the death of Tracy to his parents being killed in a climbing accident.
Point is, you cannot go from Craig to a black guy unless you want to give Bond plastic surgery. It would not make in-universe sense.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:01 pm
Point is, you cannot go from Craig to a black guy unless you want to give Bond plastic surgery. It would not make in-universe sense.
I don't follow. They've all been pretty different, Craig doesn't even come across as human. It's not like they've all been Scottish.
Although, there is precedence for your suggestion. Blofeld had some pretty impressive plastic surgery done on himself.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:01 pm
Point is, you cannot go from Craig to a black guy unless you want to give Bond plastic surgery. It would not make in-universe sense.
I don't follow. They've all been pretty different, Craig doesn't even come across as human. It's not like they've all been Scottish.
Although, there is precedence for your suggestion. Blofeld had some pretty impressive plastic surgery done on himself.
Doesn't matter. They are still all meant to be the same guy.
Serious question: have you ever spontaneously changed race?
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:01 pm
Point is, you cannot go from Craig to a black guy unless you want to give Bond plastic surgery. It would not make in-universe sense.
I don't follow. They've all been pretty different, Craig doesn't even come across as human. It's not like they've all been Scottish.
Although, there is precedence for your suggestion. Blofeld had some pretty impressive plastic surgery done on himself.
Doesn't matter. They are still all meant to be the same guy.
Serious question: have you ever spontaneously changed race?
Actually, there is some room for a running fan theory that "James Bond" is an alias, not an individual. =o It hasn't been established as canon but it's an interesting take on the franchise mythos.
The doctor, on the other hand, is an alien who dramatically changes physiology and personality. Going from a frail old man to a swinging slutty twink like David Tennant is much more dramatic than a simple thickening of tits and outie-to-innie. And that is all assuming that Time Lords have human-shaped genitals. Until somebody makes canon porn or the right anatomical jokes happen in the show, for all we know they've got cloacas.
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
McAvoy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:28 am
OK, Doctor Who, the character goes through a bunch of bodies over the decades and fans bitch about out of all of that one of them is female?
I am a person who probably watched only two or three episodes, so I have no idea the history of the show.
This sort of thing strikes me as the same reaction when rumor talk starts talking about a female Bond.
Though a general consensus is that Idris Elba is a damn near perfect Bond. Though too old now.
The Doctor is an alien who can regenerate 12 times (he can do many more now) and is a time traveler. Each version is a different personality as the process mixes up your brain. Until recently, there was no implication you changed sex but it wasn't beyond the realm of possibility. Still, geeks love things to NEVER CHANGE while demanding change in the same breath. They cling to the comfort of the familiar while insisting the shows they love continue to surprise.
There is a difference between possible and probable. Throughout the classic series, the Doctor never mentioned it, the Master never mentioned it, Susan never mentioned it, Romana never mentioned it, the Rani never mentioned it, nor did any side NPC Time Lord that we ever met.
Only when the BBC decided to force this down our throats from Matt Smith onward did this start to get raised.
Why do you find a sex and gender change so much more implausible than gaining or losing a few dozen pounds or a foot of height, or rewiring your brain? For that matter, why is it more dramatic than growing back a severed hand?
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
"I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking 'Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!'" When I am writing in this font, I am writing in my moderator voice.
Spam-desu
Yeah, but that was a joke meant for the fans. Keep in mind every Bond after has the same reaction when the fact that he was once married is brought up.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:01 pm
Point is, you cannot go from Craig to a black guy unless you want to give Bond plastic surgery. It would not make in-universe sense.
I don't follow. They've all been pretty different, Craig doesn't even come across as human. It's not like they've all been Scottish.
Although, there is precedence for your suggestion. Blofeld had some pretty impressive plastic surgery done on himself.
Doesn't matter. They are still all meant to be the same guy.
Serious question: have you ever spontaneously changed race?
Actually, there is some room for a running fan theory that "James Bond" is an alias, not an individual. =o It hasn't been established as canon but it's an interesting take on the franchise mythos.
The doctor, on the other hand, is an alien who dramatically changes physiology and personality. Going from a frail old man to a swinging slutty twink like David Tennant is much more dramatic than a simple thickening of tits and outie-to-innie. And that is all assuming that Time Lords have human-shaped genitals. Until somebody makes canon porn or the right anatomical jokes happen in the show, for all we know they've got cloacas.
I have heard of that theory too. I think even producers or writers of the various films toyed around with the idea too in the past because I have heard rumors that in some Bond films they were going to bring back previous Bonds as a cameo as a meta wink to the audience.
I have to look it up or I am just imagining it.
Let's be honest though, trying to connect the Bond films from the past 50 years is just stupid. You would have to do some major mental gymnastics to think every Bond we have seen is the same person.
It's just easier to think each new actor is a a soft reboot each time. Which means, you can easily have a black Bond.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:01 pm
Point is, you cannot go from Craig to a black guy unless you want to give Bond plastic surgery. It would not make in-universe sense.
Current Bond is a blonde when he's traditionally been dark haired. It makes no sense.
And how has the same guy been doing missions since the 60's? Just how old is he?
And where does David Niven fit into it? There's been TWO Casino Royales!
And what about all the differences from the books?
It's a soft reboot every time they get a new actor, usually with a different tone or style of movie accompanying it, and Who is much the same, though they built in sci-fi logic that does let it be the same person every time.
