TNG - The Big Goodbye

[cambiata]

Hey does anyone know about what SCP chuck was talking about.

I am also dying to know this.

[Deledrius]

So were the two henchmen of Redblock named Mr. White and Mr. Blue? xD

Redblock was accompanied by Mr. Whitelane and Mr. Blueway. They're all family to Mr. Greenstreet, I presume, given his appearance and role in the story.

I feel like this would have been better if it was released after "11001001" since that episode dealt with upgrades to the Holodeck. It would have explained malfunctions if the Jarada technology was incompatible with that of the Bynars.

According to Memory Alpha, it's stated in the Star Trek Encyclopedia that the original intent was for the events of '11001001' to lead into 'The Big Goodbye'. Ah well.

Oddly, the strangest thing of this episode is the idea of Picard being a hard boiled detective fan.

Later Picard is such an embodiment of British...err, French stuffiness that he'd only be Hornblower or Moby Dick.

It's a shame they didn't take this as a direction for Star Trek: Picard. It would have suited the actor and the character better, in my opinion, to have him solving some more cerebral mystery in his hometown as a retired Starfleet Captain than that silly nonsensical action-fest murder spree we got. More character, less character assassination, etc.

And why, oh why, do they not simply have a plug to pull? Wesley's "everyone might vanish!" is really complete insanity... how could that even be possible? Are the heroes converted completely into energy?

I thought about this, and the best (and most horrifying) explanation I have is that what Wesley was talking about was a complete wipe of the room. It sounds like if he were to abort the program without manually setting it to track which matter had been materialized and which was external, it would de-materialize everything in the reset. That is to say, without the safety protocols doing their job, ending a program empties the room. Once again, it's a pretty horrible design for a rec room to have, but there's a certain logic to that. Technically, if this is the case, the system actually failed safe when it lost track of the running program and became difficult to abort.

[Mabus]

So were the two henchmen of Redblock named Mr. White and Mr. Blue? xD

Redblock was accompanied by Mr. Whitelane and Mr. Blueway. They're all family to Mr. Greenstreet, I presume, given his appearance and role in the story.

I was making a "Reservoir Dogs" joke. Lawrence Tierney, who played Redblock in the episode, also played Joe Cabot in "Reservoir Dogs".

[Riedquat]

I agree, but how could you possibly fall off a cliff and actually get injured in a holodeck?

It would have to either repeatedly beam you up to the ceiling whenever you were about to hit the floor, or artifically accelerate your body to terminal velocity as soon as you went over.

That is, not only would the "safeties" need to be off, the thing would need to be set on "uber-kill" mode.

The thing the writers ALWAYS forget is that, holograms and transporters aside... the damn thing is a 30x30 room. The only time it was bigger was in that one Voyager episode when the warrior alien guys (I can't remember their name) took over the ship and turned it into a giant holodeck. I was making fun of the giantness of the holodeck in that episode until it turned out they'd actually thought of that for once.

True, but it makes the holodeck very limited. You wouldn't even be able to take a step down without taking a step up first. But they do have the ability to control gravity, so that'll get you some of the way. At the end of the day I think my suspension of disbelief will take me as far as being able to enter the holodeck at the top of a flight of stairs and go down them.

And why, oh why, do they not simply have a plug to pull? Wesley's "everyone might vanish!" is really complete insanity... how could that even be possible? Are the heroes converted completely into energy? That would solve the issue of the holodeck size, I suppose. But who would ever think that was a good idea for anything, let alone an entertainment console? (Further thought would indicate that it definitely doesn't do that... if it did, it would not need to be a large room and people could not walk in and out whenever they wanted.)

That definitely puts it into "insanely dangerous design" territory!

[TGLS]

And why, oh why, do they not simply have a plug to pull? Wesley's "everyone might vanish!" is really complete insanity... how could that even be possible? Are the heroes converted completely into energy?

It has to do with the original concept of the holodeck. The original script of "Elementary, Dear Data" actually made Data taking the piece of paper off the holodeck a plot point. This implied that Moriarty could walk off the holodeck himself, because the Holodeck wasn't disintegrating matter that left (for whatever reason). So matter on the Holodeck was matter that actually existed, which means that if the holodeck gets in an error state and forgets what it's supposed to delete or not, it could delete literally everything inside.

At some point down the line, all this was retconned and the Holodeck became light and force fields.

[Coyote's Own]

Hey, the Smurfs obviously take place at an unspecified period in medieval France.
Of course, an XXth century history would know anything about that. You need a medivalist.

[Rocketboy1313]

The Holodeck is a concept that does not work as well in recurring fiction.

The idea of Kirk taking Sulu into a holodeck and being trapped within the system as the characters in it start to become self aware and then the episode ends with them having to shutdown the system to save Kirk and Sulu (who is dying from a gunshot) but having a friendly NPC ask them if they will cease to exist feels like a typical episode of the original series.

But the idea of a technology that is onboard and a constant source of danger and continuity, it makes no sense to burden it with these kinds of existential questions.

[MerelyAFan]

Honestly the idea of a recreational area on a starship that consistently malfunctions, risks the lives of the crew, and yet is still used because the characters are too stubborn and/or foolish to stop using it is more suited to Red Dwarf than Star Trek. At least there it makes complete sense in universe for Holly being unable to fix its problems, as well as the likes of Rimmer, Cat, and Lister all having their own reasons for ignoring the dangers because they're that focused on enjoying themselves.

[clearspira]

Honestly the idea of a recreational area on a starship that consistently malfunctions, risks the lives of the crew, and yet is still used because the characters are too stubborn and/or foolish to stop using it is more suited to Red Dwarf than Star Trek. At least there it makes complete sense in universe for Holly being unable to fix its problems, as well as the likes of Rimmer, Cat, and Lister all having their own reasons for ignoring the dangers because they're that focused on enjoying themselves.

Yeah, Red Dwarf is an excellent example. And what's funny is that over there the ''holodeck'' is actually just a VR headset which makes far more sense.

I kind if think that we accept the holodeck as a concept because, hey, its Star Trek. Its a long-running piece of the lore. But in practice... it really does not make a whole lot of sense that it would exist in the manner that it does here. Its over-complicated, insanely dangerous, and requires technology that shouldn't exist in order to make it work e.g. its TARDIS like inner-proportions.

[pilight]

Holodeck malfunctions are more common on Voyager than TNG, which sort of flies in the face of the idea that the tech improved. DS9 only had one (two if you count "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang", which was only dangerous to Vic Fontaine). Picard is the only ST series set after the tech was introduced to not use the trope (yet).

I remember liking this episode when it aired, thinking the series was finally turning the corner and becoming good. Unfortunately it took a while longer to get there.