VOY - Unforgettable

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TGLS
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Re: VOY - Unforgettable

Post by TGLS »

Madner Kami wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:05 pm
Linkara wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:55 pm Well, in the case of the personal transporter buffer that's a case of "conceit for the game," since we've established in-universe a few times that you can't hold a pattern in the buffer forever - it starts to degrade and won't be able to reform - so my personalized photon torpedo launcher from Elite Force is more likely to rematerialize with a bunch of holes in it if I waited an hour to take it out. Plus I don't think Trek at the time was thinking about miniaturized Transported tech, at least not until Nemesis.
Star Trek - The Next Generation; Season 6, Episode 4; "Relics"

Checkmate.
Except for Scotty's friend, who apparently had his pattern decay and die. And the fact that Scotty's a wizard who can set this all up.
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MightyDavidson
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Re: VOY - Unforgettable

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TGLS wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:20 pm
Madner Kami wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:05 pm
Linkara wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:55 pm Well, in the case of the personal transporter buffer that's a case of "conceit for the game," since we've established in-universe a few times that you can't hold a pattern in the buffer forever - it starts to degrade and won't be able to reform - so my personalized photon torpedo launcher from Elite Force is more likely to rematerialize with a bunch of holes in it if I waited an hour to take it out. Plus I don't think Trek at the time was thinking about miniaturized Transported tech, at least not until Nemesis.
Star Trek - The Next Generation; Season 6, Episode 4; "Relics"

Checkmate.
Except for Scotty's friend, who apparently had his pattern decay and die. And the fact that Scotty's a wizard who can set this all up.
Also, didn't that episode pretty much state that Scotty likely would've died himself had he not been rescued?
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Re: VOY - Unforgettable

Post by drewder »

Linkara wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:55 pm
Enterprising wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:05 am
McAvoy wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:56 am I can easily see those auto turrets being hacked or malfunction with the 'weird thing of the week'.

There is so much you can do to upgrade security in Trek.

1.) True authorized personnel barriers to sensitive areas. Whether it's security locks, active computer scanning, security codes, forcefields etc.

2.) Some sort of body armor for the security. Something they can strap on easily enough when they have to grab their phasers. Doesn't have to be phaser proof but can greatly reduce the impact to perhaps just a decent burn that takes a doctor a few minutes to fix. Heavier armor for severe shipboard issues like enemy boarding.

3.) Transporters wiping out anything not authorized like weapons or biological agents. Perhaps suspend the person in question until you have security in place to rematerialize him on the pad.

4.) Actual physical barrier in place in the brig. Along with the forcefields. If power goes off, the barrier is still there.

5.) Forcefields that completely surround the intruder instead it just blocking the whole corridor.
The Voyager Elite Force game actually introduced a fair few great concepts that I was disappointed the show itself didn't take up. Main one being the concept of security team members having a transporter buffer belt strapped round them. They'd store all their equipment within it, meaning they can have their weapons, breather masks, tricorders etc. all useable at a moments notice.
Well, in the case of the personal transporter buffer that's a case of "conceit for the game," since we've established in-universe a few times that you can't hold a pattern in the buffer forever - it starts to degrade and won't be able to reform - so my personalized photon torpedo launcher from Elite Force is more likely to rematerialize with a bunch of holes in it if I waited an hour to take it out. Plus I don't think Trek at the time was thinking about miniaturized Transported tech, at least not until Nemesis.
I think there's a difference between transporting humans where a few microns of missing neurons can be a big deal and just normal inanimate objects. I can't remember where but I believe that food replicators have a much lower resolution requirement than transporters even though they're doing essentially the same task. Like the difference between getting all the right atoms vs getting the electrons spinning in the same energy orbit.
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Madner Kami
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Re: VOY - Unforgettable

Post by Madner Kami »

TGLS wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:20 pm
Madner Kami wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:05 pm
Linkara wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:55 pm Well, in the case of the personal transporter buffer that's a case of "conceit for the game," since we've established in-universe a few times that you can't hold a pattern in the buffer forever - it starts to degrade and won't be able to reform - so my personalized photon torpedo launcher from Elite Force is more likely to rematerialize with a bunch of holes in it if I waited an hour to take it out. Plus I don't think Trek at the time was thinking about miniaturized Transported tech, at least not until Nemesis.
Star Trek - The Next Generation; Season 6, Episode 4; "Relics"

Checkmate.
Except for Scotty's friend, who apparently had his pattern decay and die. And the fact that Scotty's a wizard who can set this all up.
His friend got unlucky yes, but not because the process failed, but because the jury-rigged equipment ceased to work, but even then, the patterns of the poor guy had only degraded by 53% in a time-span of 75 years. Scotty's patterns degraded by less than 0.003% in the same time-span with the same equipment (except that his phase inducers did not fail). So it is possible and, if properly built up instead of being jury-rigged from potentially damaged and definitly unmaintened-for-75-years-equipment, I'm certain it would be no hassle to create a storage-device that holds a relatively simple technical device for a couple of days safely.
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Re: VOY - Unforgettable

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You don't even need to hold that pattern for days. Not even hours. Minutes. Which I think has been done without any jury rigging. Not sure though.
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Re: VOY - Unforgettable

Post by Linkara »

drewder wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:41 pm
Linkara wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:55 pm Well, in the case of the personal transporter buffer that's a case of "conceit for the game," since we've established in-universe a few times that you can't hold a pattern in the buffer forever - it starts to degrade and won't be able to reform - so my personalized photon torpedo launcher from Elite Force is more likely to rematerialize with a bunch of holes in it if I waited an hour to take it out. Plus I don't think Trek at the time was thinking about miniaturized Transported tech, at least not until Nemesis.
I think there's a difference between transporting humans where a few microns of missing neurons can be a big deal and just normal inanimate objects. I can't remember where but I believe that food replicators have a much lower resolution requirement than transporters even though they're doing essentially the same task. Like the difference between getting all the right atoms vs getting the electrons spinning in the same energy orbit.
Replicator tech is SIMILAR to transporters, but it's apparently more of a "programmable matter" or recycled material kind of thing (which is also why the "programmable matter" thing in Discovery just made me scratch my head because it suggested that replicator tech was something to be super impressed by when we had seen it before, even if TOS-era didn't have it in the same degree) - where they have the ability to convert some base materials into food/objects just by rearranging the atoms, which isn't TOO far outside the realm of possibility - after all, coal and diamonds are essentially made of the same material, just one has been heavily compressed. From there, you just need energy to pull it off. The pattern in this case is like how a 3-D printer knows what to manufacture from the material given to it.

With the transporter, it's converting an object into an energy form and then transmitting that energy to a spot where it rematerializes, encased in a containment field that keeps the atoms from scattering everywhere when it's forming. But the energy can't be held indefinitely unless you've got something like Scotty rigged up (and even then, that was more a conceit of getting Scotty in the show, since the producers didn't want the transporter to be a way to solve all their problems or be a source of immortality). It just decays and thus holding it for too long is dangerous. And hence the same occurs for inanimate objects just as much as living matter - the energy degrades and whatever's left may not form perfectly as it was before because there isn't as much energy as when entered. And we've seen a few times on the show with the transporter that it won't necessarily beam back intact - Ensigns of Command comes to mind when the transporter test of a cylinder comes back all screwed up when they fail to beam into an environment where transporter beams scatter.
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