FBI Uncovered Russian Bribery Plot

[Steve]

I'm trying to avoid censorship, as in you're not forbidden from discussing an idea, but people are being asked to not toss labels at someone for not agreeing with them.

[Admiral X]

Fair enough.

[Karha of Honor]

Way easier to deal with than being called a racist.

That is debatable, especially since, as I said, it is my experience that "regressive" and "SJW" are basically dog-whistles for "progressives/liberals/Democrats are the REAL racists". Its a less direct attack, perhaps, but arguably more dangerous for being insidious.

In any case, I do not, as a rule, accuse people of racism as a way of stigmatizing and shutting down any position to the Right* of my own, and if I have ever given an impression to the contrary, I apologize. Generally, if I accuse someone of something, I am either being sarcastic/employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device or, more likely, believe that it is a valid accusation to make against them.

But apparently its not permissible to do so here so, while I personally feel that that is a rule that hands the advantage in any debate to the bigot (since they can express their views without being directly called on it), I will endeavor to desist from doing so.

*I do regard the Republican Party as a racist organization, because its leadership and membership has overwhelmingly, for a period of decades, either engaged in bigotry, or encouraged or at least tolerated bigotry in its ranks for the sake of political advantage. However, "Republican" is not synonymous with "conservative".

I'm prepared to respect anyone of conservative ideology as long as they are prepared to respect the rules of the democratic system- essentially, a fair vote, freedom of belief and expression, due process and the rule of law, and equality under the law. My greatest grudge against the Republican Party, and many conservatives, is not an honest difference in philosophy on the best economic system or role of government- it is that so many of them seem no longer to respect the rules of the democratic system.

Opposition is essential to democracy, but when a major party (particularly if you only have two of them to begin with) routinely attempts to undermine the democratic system and the rule of law for political advantage, and makes it a point of ideology to do so (as I am sorry to say that some on the Left have increasingly done as well over the last couple of years), that is an untenable situation. They cease to be a functioning opposition, and become an existential threat, to all parties and factions.

It is also extremely short-sighted, because the rule of law and the democratic system essentially function as political pressure release systems- ways to resolve conflict, allow people to vent their frustrations, and facilitate changes of power without bodies in the street.

Undermine those mechanisms, and the pressure builds until a violent outburst becomes increasingly likely. Which is not, ultimately, in anyone's best interests.

Edit: And to clarify, no, I'm not saying that all Republicans are racist, so if you're a Republican, no need to report me. I am referring to the party leadership, organization, platforms, and policies. But if you are a Republican and do not have racist intent, then I respectfully suggest that you find a new party that better fits your ideals.

Is the Republican Party at this very moment yes or no?

What was the last year it was racist?

[The Romulan Republic]

I thought I was pretty clear- I consider the Republican Party right now-its leadership and many of its policies-to be racist, and not just in the casual or unintentional way that almost everybody is sometimes racist. It is overtly pushing racist policies, and condoning and encouraging white supremacists, for its own self-interest.

[Antiboyscout]

Asian supremacy actually

Koreatown '92 Never Forget.

[Antiboyscout]

Back on topic.

Circumstantial evidence is mounting against Hillary. It also calls into question the Trump collusion. Why would the Russians go toward the unknown that is Trump instead of to Hillary with whom they had done business with previously?

[Karha of Honor]

I thought I was pretty clear- I consider the Republican Party right now-its leadership and many of its policies-to be racist, and not just in the casual or unintentional way that almost everybody is sometimes racist. It is overtly pushing racist policies, and condoning and encouraging white supremacists, for its own self-interest.

Sometimes racist? It's like a cold, not something over people could lose almost everything over?

If it's leadership is racist how do they hide this conspiracy from genpop and the members?

[TGLS]

Back on topic.

Circumstantial evidence is mounting against Hillary. It also calls into question the Trump collusion. Why would the Russians go toward the unknown that is Trump instead of to Hillary with whom they had done business with previously?

Russia isn't playing to put a Manchurian Candidate in the white house; there playing to disrupt the United States. Even if Trump didn't collude with Russia, they still might have put up Trump ads on social media to cause trouble. They may very well have attempted to setup pretext that Trump was colluding with Russia to cause even more trouble. They may have even planted seeds like this to cause trouble for a Clinton presidency. It's simply in Russia's interest to cause domestic problems in America so America's foreign policy suffers.

[Karha of Honor]

Back on topic.

Circumstantial evidence is mounting against Hillary. It also calls into question the Trump collusion. Why would the Russians go toward the unknown that is Trump instead of to Hillary with whom they had done business with previously?

Russia isn't playing to put a Manchurian Candidate in the white house; there playing to disrupt the United States. Even if Trump didn't collude with Russia, they still might have put up Trump ads on social media to cause trouble. They may very well have attempted to setup pretext that Trump was colluding with Russia to cause even more trouble. They may have even planted seeds like this to cause trouble for a Clinton presidency. It's simply in Russia's interest to cause domestic problems in America so America's foreign policy suffers.

American Foreign Policy deserves to suffer.

[The Romulan Republic]

In what way is Russian foreign policy better? In reality, not in anti-establishment conspiracy theorist land, where any crime can be excused as long as its against whatever the United States is doing.

Imperialist military actions? Russia's got that covered.

Interference in other countries' internal politics? Oh hell yes.

Props up despotic regimes? Absolutely.

Corrupt corporate oligarchs influencing the government? The Koch brothers probably dream of the kind of corruption Russia has. I mean, its not exactly a secret that in Russia, the lines between big business, the state, and the Mafia are very blurry.

The play the same game as America at its worst- if anything, they play it even more ruthlessly. They just haven't played it as effectively until the last couple of years.

Edit: None of that excuses any American misconduct, of course. But simply vilifying America's foreign policy is over-simplistic (there are many aspects to American foreign policy, some positive and some negative), and in any case, my point is that it does nobody any good if a weakening of American foreign policy occurs for the benefit of Russia. Which is what is going on with Trump.