Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

My opinion over the last 3 movies is that I don't remember anything resembling themes of civil resolution from extraordinary encounters. I am a bit compelled to commend Into Darkness on how intricate their backdrop theme is with government corruption. It probably does better than Insurrection for that regard.

But I gotta give a point to the fans; though I don't care to appeal to sentiments of hope and optimism that I hear a bunch of people complain about with regard to this era, but the civil resolution is something I think was rather persistent from TOS through even Enterprise. Of course not every episode or movie much less has it, but at this point now, a show called Picard that runs mainly like Lost In Space indicates a bit for me.

[CharlesPhipps]

There's some fandoms out there with members DESPERATE to believe the new stuff is hated if they don't like it.

[Deledrius]

There's some fandoms out there with members DESPERATE to believe the new stuff is hated if they don't like it.

It's really baffling to me. I have a lot of complaints about the new shows, but it's clear that some people do enjoy them honestly. I might think they're delusional but I do accept fans of it exist. I just can't understand this weird subset of the fandom that is so militantly in denial that there is at least a baseline level of success in the current incarnation, and are ready to fabricate entire conspiracy theories of behind-the-scenes intrigue to justify it all. That's not helpful to anyone.

[Yukaphile]

I want to admit, in the year since I've been gone, changed a lot of views about Star Trek. Getting into Stargate, a lot of other great sci-fi franchises, and just generally talking with others, well, I've had to admit Star Trek never really had the best kinda continuity I ever thought it did. I'd generally prefer something in the vein of the post-DS9 continuation than anything else, see where the galaxy is that way, but I think I made the right call to move on because there is absolutely no way we will be getting that now. It does amuse me to see YouTubers grabbing Voyager to defend what's happening now. Voyager has serious issues, I have to wonder if they've rewatched it lately. Janeway should be something they hate, a tyrannical woman who thinks SHE has the power to decide who lives and dies, yet they don't. It's bizarre. They should admit, however, that you could make a strong case, many of the problems we're facing now can almost be traced back to those shows, Voyager and Enterprise, and not really so much DISCO and Picard. But yeah. Star Trek was pretty fast and loose with continuity, there was all sorts of petty ego-stroking, and battles behind the scenes that imo, well, I think Star Trek succeeded in spite of itself. We all know what a self-sabotaging influence Gene Roddenberry was, for the most part, but then there were other issues accompanying that which remained long after his death. I maintain what I had said once on this forum. I don't see the future of this franchise in the next 50 years, but for different reasons now, mostly because I wonder if the intellectual portion of the fanbase will have all just walked out, and it's not because of continuity so much as consolidation of creativity. They really only hire these toadies now who obey what the cooperate vultures want and demand from them. I can't help but wonder where the future of the fandom is when a lot of fans in 2009 joined for reasons completely different from the classical fans, and those will be the ones to remain when the dust settles and the intellectual fans have all just went their separate ways. I'd found feelings in Babylon 5 and Stargate I hadn't felt for Star Trek in a long time. I think it's a compromise made on shaky ground to try to make a show for the reboot crowd with easter eggs for the classic fans that is going to get thinner and thinner as time passes until you have a collapse. Really, the Burn seems like something similar to the recent Great Disaster over for Star Wars' High Republic era. They're almost the same. That's how homogenized the arts are becoming thanks to our new corporate masters, and it's really hitting the oldest franchises now the worst.

[Yukaphile]

Hell, even DS9. As much as I love that, Trek at its best had a huge problem where they overcomplicated something thinking it made it "smart." Often times, the simplest, mundane solution is the best. Like on SGA where they needed to destroy the Wraith cloning facility, but weren't able to rig up charges and the Wraith had made them, they had nothing else, so what to do? Ditch the Wraith cruiser and improvise it as a weapon - just THROW the fuckin' thing at the planet. Rodney himself seems a bit nonplussed, but feebly admits that did it. They had the weapon all along. And it makes sense Sheppard, a pilot, would have realized that. The same can't be said for Star Trek in situations that need a technical or even military application. And many of the technical solutions on TNG could and probably should have been used on DS9. The "at least give us a tiny moment of lip service to why time travel isn't being used to help win the Dominion War" musing from Chuck is a small extension of this, like whenever he jokes that someone isn't using time travel that Kirk was using in the 2280s. DS9 teases something like the Kull warrior in terms of the Federation's soldier potential and never shows it, opting more for heavy-handed war commentary in "The Siege of AR-558" which I felt dubious given that it's THE JEM'HADAR rushing them. Come on. I think perhaps Chairman Ashwan should have stuck to governing on his home planet. That intel was clearly faulty. You know unscrupulous groups like Section 31 would have been trying to change time that way. Really, limited thought was creeping in even with DS9. Sad to admit it, but it's true, I think.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's really baffling to me. I have a lot of complaints about the new shows, but it's clear that some people do enjoy them honestly. I might think they're delusional but I do accept fans of it exist. I just can't understand this weird subset of the fandom that is so militantly in denial that there is at least a baseline level of success in the current incarnation, and are ready to fabricate entire conspiracy theories of behind-the-scenes intrigue to justify it all. That's not helpful to anyone.

I think boiled down to its simplest is the fact that these fans are of the mind that there's some sort of object measure of quality that they're arbitrating as opposed to a matter of taste. If people like DISCO and PICARD and they don't then that means that it's not a matter of whether they're good or bad but that they are just different it strikes at their belief that such things can be judged.

They want to be the gatekeepers but if they're not gatekeepers and anyone can enjoy it, their fandom isn't "special."

[Frustration]

I am not overly critical of Discovery Era Trek as some are but I can see the issues. But I also saw the issues with Voyager and Enterprise.

As did I. But I saw a steady decline, which has reached its nadir in Discovery.

It's pretty much an inevitable consequence of people wanting to generate more of a franchise to merely make money, instead of wanting to tell stories and using a franchise as a medium. And support themselves, of course - artists want to make money, too, because everybody's got to eat. But when there's no interest in the setting and the stories for their own sake, when it becomes purely commercial, you get trash.

It's obvious when a show is willing to challenge its viewers, and when it's pandering to them.

[Deledrius]

I think boiled down to its simplest is the fact that these fans are of the mind that there's some sort of object measure of quality that they're arbitrating as opposed to a matter of taste. If people like DISCO and PICARD and they don't then that means that it's not a matter of whether they're good or bad but that they are just different it strikes at their belief that such things can be judged.

They want to be the gatekeepers but if they're not gatekeepers and anyone can enjoy it, their fandom isn't "special."

I'm inclined to agree, but it does feel more pathological than that. Wanting to have a common ground based in some objective measure itself isn't the problem on its own.

It's obvious when a show is willing to challenge its viewers, and when it's pandering to them.

Well said.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think boiled down to its simplest is the fact that these fans are of the mind that there's some sort of object measure of quality that they're arbitrating as opposed to a matter of taste. If people like DISCO and PICARD and they don't then that means that it's not a matter of whether they're good or bad but that they are just different it strikes at their belief that such things can be judged.

They want to be the gatekeepers but if they're not gatekeepers and anyone can enjoy it, their fandom isn't "special."

I'm inclined to agree, but it does feel more pathological than that. Wanting to have a common ground based in some objective measure itself isn't the problem on its own.

It is as far as them having a vote as legitimate fans of the franchise.

[CharlesPhipps]

It is as far as them having a vote as legitimate fans of the franchise.

That kind of cuts to the heart doesn't it?

Is there such a thing as an "illegitimate" fan?