Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

[clearspira]

"Give it time, it'll get better" is not ALWAYS a guarantee. I think that gets confused for the trope known as flanderization. Over time, that becomes more prominent. And you know, if flanderization is meant to take the role of characterization though the inevitability of inertia and entropy, does that mean it was always subpar? I guess that depends on the viewer.

The Simpsons is the best example of this going. 30 years its been on and I don't know anyone who would claim it didn't peak in the nineties.

[Makeshift Python]

I do wonder how none star treks fans who has cbs all access think of Discovery.

I'm not sure why anyone else would have Paramount Plus at all if they weren't a fan, so I imagine a good percentage are. Otherwise, they're paying a lot just for reruns of Big Bang Theory, or whatever.

Being a non-fan is probably a bonus for the first season of Discovery, at which point as it walks back into Trek they discover they're fans now, too.

It's grown beyond its original CBS All Access incarnation. It's been growing as a Paramount/Viacom library, with multiple networks like Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, etc. They even just signed a multi-million deal with the creators of South Park to make multiple films for the streamer, because HBO Max had bought the South Park series license before the re-merger took place. So before P+ ever gets the series, they're gonna get several films exclusive to their platform.

I have friends that share my account because there's shows they want to watch on it, and it's not even Star Trek. It's no doubt their biggest drawing franchise since they actually have a whole page dedicated to Trek, but they're very smart to expand on completely different shows so to reach beyond the Trek audience.

[Makeshift Python]

Unless they like both, in which case the entire argument falls apart.

The two kinds of products are so different that a judgment that enjoys both must be extraordinarily inclusive. It's hard enough to discuss matters of taste already; standards of quality that are too radically different make communication next to impossible.

I have watched Star Trek since TNG and watched TOS on reruns since I was like fucking eight.

I still like DISCO and Picard.

I find the quality of storytelling present in DIS and PIC to be not only inadequate to hold my interest but insulting. You're entitled to your own opinion, but I can only conclude that your opinions on art and entertainment come from such different standards that there's no room for agreement. The first season of DIS made the first two seasons of TNG look like seat-of-your-pants thrillers, and it's obvious the show creators have no idea where they're going with it - they can't even settle on a basic premise.

Discovery is a prime example of an entertainment product that has no vision behind it, just a desire to create a product to make money. There's nothing wrong with trying to make money, but it can't by itself result in quality art.

People have different opinions. That's all there is to it.

[Yukaphile]

"Give it time, it'll get better" is not ALWAYS a guarantee. I think that gets confused for the trope known as flanderization. Over time, that becomes more prominent. And you know, if flanderization is meant to take the role of characterization though the inevitability of inertia and entropy, does that mean it was always subpar? I guess that depends on the viewer.

The Simpsons is the best example of this going. 30 years its been on and I don't know anyone who would claim it didn't peak in the nineties.

Yeah, I do hear many recent complaining about it. I wouldn't know, the last time I watched Simpsons, channel surfing, so very casually, was back in the 1990s. Exactly when you describe.

You know, I miss channel surfing in this goddamned streaming age. Not just the greed and petty ego-stroking and destruction of creativity. The feeling of kickin' back and browsing through 200 channels on a lazy Sunday morning, with a bag of Doritos by your side, feet propped up, a light rain shower outside, till you hit something interesting and settle down there.

[CharlesPhipps]

I find the quality of storytelling present in DIS and PIC to be not only inadequate to hold my interest but insulting. You're entitled to your own opinion, but I can only conclude that your opinions on art and entertainment come from such different standards that there's no room for agreement. The first season of DIS made the first two seasons of TNG look like seat-of-your-pants thrillers, and it's obvious the show creators have no idea where they're going with it - they can't even settle on a basic premise.

Actually, that is kind of my point. That what people like from their genre medium can be extremely varied and there's "No true Trekkie."

Discovery is a prime example of an entertainment product that has no vision behind it, just a desire to create a product to make money. There's nothing wrong with trying to make money, but it can't by itself result in quality art.

And they did settle on a basic premise, it's just the writers and producers changed halfway through with the new ones not interested in the Klingon War that was about religious fundamentalism, the War on Terror, and fears of ethnic nationalism gaining power.

But a lot of fans are like, "UGH! That isn't Star trek!"

[Yukaphile]

One complaint I hear is that Kurtzman doesn't fight for his writers the way Berman did. Now how true is that? I'm uncertain. Because they cite Michael Piller while Kurtzman fired Bryan Fuller. I think, perhaps, the simplest explanation for why some don't like the new shows boils down to the fact they have thousands of ideas and very little time to do ANYTHING with them. Aren't all the new excessively corporatized streaming shows capped at ten episodes? So you get rushed plot points that lead nowhere. That is a consistent criticism I hear for almost every season. That's never a good sign and that's why these corporate hacks need to soak up all these publishing tie-ins in order to explain their blunders, so you can't even get good literature anymore. Like, when I look at the cable sci-fi golden age, ten episodes hardly seems time to do ANYTHING. And I don't need dark and gritty serialization, but since Ron Moore's Voyager fanfic shoved into Battlestar Galactica, since Game of Thrones, since the MCU, that's become the norm, but I think that might require a cut above what the industry demands from most of its employees, as most might be more suited to an anthology episodic format. Just what I feel. I'm speculating to where the mixed feelings come from, since I never saw the shows, and Lower Decks is the only one on my list once it wraps up.

[CharlesPhipps]

The next 6 years will be a trip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5sk0RUlS4
I guess, just like in politics, in Hollywood it's perfectly possible to fail upwards.

Especially when Kurtzman's latest Paramount+ show, Clarice, was canceled after one season. I guess he should have made that show a part of NuTrek, that way it wouldn't have been canceled and it would have gotten like 20 seasons.

I think there's a certain irony to the above statement if you watched Clarice. It was really-really good.

[CharlesPhipps]

One complaint I hear is that Kurtzman doesn't fight for his writers the way Berman did. Now how true is that? I'm uncertain. Because they cite Michael Piller while Kurtzman fired Bryan Fuller.

The issue with Fuller was the fact that he had very specific ideas about Star Trek that they didn't agree on and amusingly still kept.

It's what led to the fact DISCO is two entirely different shows that switch mid-season.

[Yukaphile]

I do know they addressed many of the criticisms, like changing the redesign of the Klingons back, but then did they ever actually admit that publicly? Or is it just a nesting hive of corporate cronyism? That seems to be EVERYWHERE now. I also hear DISCO is basically a diluted Andromeda, and that's on my watchlist already.

[CharlesPhipps]

I do know they addressed many of the criticisms, like changing the redesign of the Klingons back, but then did they ever actually admit that publicly? Or is it just a nesting hive of corporate cronyism? That seems to be EVERYWHERE now. I also hear DISCO is basically a diluted Andromeda, and that's on my watchlist already.

1. I mean they talk a lot about things in the Star Trek Day fancasts and convention talks. Will Wheaton also does interviews.

2. Its not so much diluted Andromeda so much as a much better take on the idea. It is still very much, "Post-Apocalypse Federation. Can we rebuild it?"

3. Kutzman if you ever watch his interviews mostly comes across as a nerd who suits said to make "Star Trek stuff"

Sort of like how Kevin Smith said he got hired to do Superman: The Movie. "Someone saw my story about Lois Lane and Superman fucking in Mallrats and assumed I knew a lot about Superman."