Ancients vs. Federation (Morals off, bloodlusted)

[Deledrius]

If this scenario is changed to ''Star Trek vs Stargate'' then it would automatically become a battle between the adaptive powers of the Borg and the Replicators with everyone else left to pick up the pieces.

...and then the Doctor steps out of the TARDIS and beats both of them using the Moment as literally all of existence is now at stake.

Fair enough.

[Yukaphile]

The speed point cannot be understated. With morals off and bloodlusted, all that's required to do is just fuck up a planet before reinforcements can ever arrive, whether with Stargate bombs or something else. Mass civilian casualties. And Ancient drones ignore shielding. I think anything less than metaphasic shields would fall prey to them. You could achieve near total victory that way and deplete your enemy's industrial capacity, leaving them to sue for negotiation on your terms. That, and we have never really seen Federation shields on the same level as Lantean shields where they can be extended to cover the horizon of a planet with three ZPMs, enough to protect the surface of the world from a CME past the order of what we expect from our own sun. The Federation might have similar level of protection with metaphasic shields, but can they EXTEND them that far? I don't know. With ZPMs and speed advantage, the Ancients curbstomp. But there is a reason I ticked off time travel, since then it gets way too complicated, and as we've seen with Lantean time travel, such as Janus's Time Jumper, your own future could meet the past/present in the face. It gets too confusing to debate. And Federation time travel is like magic. Arguing which time travel is superior is pointless. The Time Lords stomp in that department anyway.

[McAvoy]

I once posted on Gateworld long ago. Its the big forum for Stargate.

Anyway, the general consensus for a Trek versus Gate battle was that the speed of the ships whether it was Asgard, Tauri or Ancient would win. Weapons wise, toss up in the air. The power of the weapons on each show was the power of plot, dialogue or limitations of SFX.

High end value stated I remember was that each energy bolt was 200 megatons from a Ha'tak class ship. I also once counted how many of these would bring down the shields of a Ha'tak hovered around 12-20.

[Nealithi]

I think power and tech in general gets handwaved way too often in both franchises.
I mean how much power does a ZPM produce? They are tapping an entire other universe for energy. So why is keeping a shield up under water drain so many of them again? Some of the power boosts needed were done with jury-rigged naqueda reactors with the power core of a staff weapon. The gates use wormholes. Something the Federation is familiar with. But cannot reproduce on their own as of TNG. Buuut. the control mechanism can be replaced with a computer that is a bit obsolete by today's standards. Let alone the Federation. And the gates work both ways.
Ancient beaming tech seems to require both a sending and receiving platform. But the Federation does not.

Make this even an evil Ancients vs the proper Federation. And the issue is how fast can the Federation level the playing field on tech?

[TGLS]

Make this even an evil Ancients vs the proper Federation. And the issue is how fast can the Federation level the playing field on tech?

Two episodes, tops.

[Yukaphile]

Of course, because they have magic tech/plot reset. What force alive could contend with that? They could beat an alliance of the Daleks and the Xeelee based on that. They could beat STTGL based on that.

[McAvoy]

I think power and tech in general gets handwaved way too often in both franchises.
I mean how much power does a ZPM produce? They are tapping an entire other universe for energy. So why is keeping a shield up under water drain so many of them again? Some of the power boosts needed were done with jury-rigged naqueda reactors with the power core of a staff weapon. The gates use wormholes. Something the Federation is familiar with. But cannot reproduce on their own as of TNG. Buuut. the control mechanism can be replaced with a computer that is a bit obsolete by today's standards. Let alone the Federation. And the gates work both ways.
Ancient beaming tech seems to require both a sending and receiving platform. But the Federation does not.

Make this even an evil Ancients vs the proper Federation. And the issue is how fast can the Federation level the playing field on tech?

One of the interesting things about Stargate series was that they jury rigged the whole setup to use the gate. Used super computers if I recall. The Tokra were impressed, and the whole setup made the Earth unique from the rest of the network.

Later on the later seasons, the whole program could be put on a laptop.

One if the interesting things though it seems as if the Ancients and the Gould both designed their tech to be very user friendly and easy to understand.

Trek would definitely be able to figure out Stargate tech probably within the first 15 minutes of an episode.

Probably would be able to mimic the FTL with the Swiss army deflector dish.

[clearspira]

I think power and tech in general gets handwaved way too often in both franchises.
I mean how much power does a ZPM produce? They are tapping an entire other universe for energy. So why is keeping a shield up under water drain so many of them again? Some of the power boosts needed were done with jury-rigged naqueda reactors with the power core of a staff weapon. The gates use wormholes. Something the Federation is familiar with. But cannot reproduce on their own as of TNG. Buuut. the control mechanism can be replaced with a computer that is a bit obsolete by today's standards. Let alone the Federation. And the gates work both ways.
Ancient beaming tech seems to require both a sending and receiving platform. But the Federation does not.

Make this even an evil Ancients vs the proper Federation. And the issue is how fast can the Federation level the playing field on tech?

One of the interesting things about Stargate series was that they jury rigged the whole setup to use the gate. Used super computers if I recall. The Tokra were impressed, and the whole setup made the Earth unique from the rest of the network.

Later on the later seasons, the whole program could be put on a laptop.

One if the interesting things though it seems as if the Ancients and the Gould both designed their tech to be very user friendly and easy to understand.

Trek would definitely be able to figure out Stargate tech probably within the first 15 minutes of an episode.

Probably would be able to mimic the FTL with the Swiss army deflector dish.

I think that is an excellent point. If you can make something work using contemporary technology then you can make something work using the main computer of a Federation capital ship. And if you can make something work with an early 2000's laptop then you can make it work with a tricorder.

It also seems as if Ancient, Goa'uld and even Asgard tech have very primitive firewalls and anti-virus software. That was the whole point of ''Avenger 2.0'' after all. We laugh at how easily Voyager can be hacked sometimes but it really does seem to be more secure than this.

Maybe the hero the Federation needs to win this war is Jeff Goldblum and a single Mac.

[TGLS]

Ancient Leader: "They'll never figure out how to use a stargate without a DHD."
*beep* *beep* *beep*
Data: "I've set up a system to use the unknown wormhole device"

Ancient Leader: "They'll never figure out the coordinate system in time"
*Six shuttles fly to random coordinates*
Seven: "Based on the reports back from three of the shuttles, I have triangulated the origin of the UWD network."

Ancient Leader: "Surely they won't find our base"
Nog: "Based on these captured shipping manifests, these are the probable base locations
Janeway: "Good, dial all of them and fire photon torpedos through them for an hour each."

[Yukaphile]

I mean, in any realistic universe where the Federation didn't have magic tech and help from the writers, the Ancients would be far superior since they built entire galactic gate networks out of what it took the Prophets to do, which was far superior to them, as seen in the TNG-DS9 era. A stable wormhole was something that was only theoretical until then, and it was artificial. But of course that's not the universe the Federation lives in, sadly.