Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Lazerlike42
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Makeshift Python wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:16 pm I genuinely believe if DISCO had actually stuck to the aesthetics of TOS, not only would it have been a less controversial show among fandom, it would have been given a pass for simply adhering to the old look, perhaps even COMMENDED for doing that. But because the makers had the gall to “update” the look of the universe, that was perceived by fans as a slight against the original series, it told them “your previous TOS wasn’t good enough”, and from that point on they viewed any Kurtzman production in bad faith because they did the unforgivable. That’s not how I perceive it, but I’ve seen a lot take it that way. Especially given how Star Wars in contrast actually replicated the 70s aesthetics so faithfully that you have loads of fans who commend ROGUE ONE for being accurate on that front, and Trek fans are absolutely jealous that the other big space franchise is getting away with it.
I don't think Discovery had to copy the aesthetics of TOS and they could have done something that looked a little newer in many respects - but I agree with you that the look of the show is probably the number one thing that has kept a lot of people from being able to give the show a chance. That doesn't mean they all would have liked it any better once they gave it a chance, by the way - but likely some would.

I think it's always been a caricature of fans of any property - including Star Trek - to paint them as unreasonably opposed to allowing new real world cinema technology to update the look of classic franchises. I think the reality is that almost all fans will accept and even embrace these kinds of improvements as long as they're clearly matters of improved real world technology rather than an anachronistic reimagining of the property's fictional technology.

Enterprise is the prime example of this. It's extremely obvious that the technology as presented there looks more refined and polished than the technology that is seen on TOS and is supposed to take place much later - but it also looks like the technology in Enterprise intended to predate the tech of TOS and it's just that they had better tools for making the show ins the 2000s than in the 1960s. You don't watch Enterprise and say, "what the heck? Those computer panels look about 100 years more advanced than in TOS." Instead, you watch it and say, "it's obvious that Enterprise was made a few decades after TOS, but you can tell how this is supposed to be earlier tech that is just made in more modern times."

In other words, I think the vast majority of fans will accept a healthy degree of "it's only a TV show and we made this with better cinema tech than the old one so although we tried to respect the aesthetic or the original it looks a little different." What many won't accept is, "we made this with better cinema tech than the old one so we totally ignored everything about the original and it wound up looking like something from 600 years after the original."

It's like the difference between making a western in the 60s vs. today. Maybe in the 60s the gunfights look pretty wooden and when someone gets shot with an arrow you can tell the actor just sortof put the arrow between his arm and his chest. Remaking it today, the gunfights would be well choreographed and the guy getting shot was done with CGI and looks realistic - but you didn't suddenly give the bandits AK-47s. That's sortof how Discovery feels and that's what put a lot people off from even being able to consider the plot or characters.
Lazerlike42
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Yukaphile wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:16 am Yeah, but I think the REAL question to be asking ourselves is: Are today's progressives REALLY the right people, the right ideology, to lead us into the future? In the past year, I've been asking myself that more and more and harder and harder than ever before. If we're having a fuckin' war over PROPER LABELS and how they apply to people... because labels historically have divided people, and at this stage in history we have more labels than we ever have. Plus the people I talk to, the conservatives? By the metrics of merely a few decades ago would HAVE to be considered the progressives for that generation. I've said this before. Or at least the liberals. But if that's the case, then Star Trek was always a LIBERAL show. Always held back before it could fulfill every checkmark in Roddenberry's progressive agenda, and it was a better show for it. Not that the modern shows do that, by any stretch of the imagination, just from all I hear. There's just false marketing to make you THINK it has. Like declaring Michael Burnham "the first black lead in all Star Tre -" whoops! And they made Sisko into a footnote. So they amended into "black woman!" As if there's some kinda invisible tug-of-war where one bit of diversity trumps the other and mixing them all into a blender ensures the ultimate goodness. I mean, it's just what I see as an outsider.
The thing with Michael is similar to how Rey was loudly proclaimed to be a great triumph for a science fiction franchise finally featuring a strong female lead - totally discounting Janeway and Ripley at least, if not others.
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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And since I'm diving into the EU, I can tell you there were tons of great female characters. Plus, yeah, they ignored other female characters. I've never seen the Aliens franchise, but I do know OF Ripley. Rather than Janeway, I'd name a character like Weir and Carter from Stargate.
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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But it is even worse in Rey's case since she's just a bastardized fusion of Jaina Solo to a 21st century generation's Luke Skywalker, and it doesn't work nearly as well as either of those characters did prior to 2015.
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Lazerlike42 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 am
Enterprise is the prime example of this. It's extremely obvious that the technology as presented there looks more refined and polished than the technology that is seen on TOS and is supposed to take place much later - but it also looks like the technology in Enterprise intended to predate the tech of TOS and it's just that they had better tools for making the show ins the 2000s than in the 1960s. You don't watch Enterprise and say, "what the heck? Those computer panels look about 100 years more advanced than in TOS." Instead, you watch it and say, "it's obvious that Enterprise was made a few decades after TOS, but you can tell how this is supposed to be earlier tech that is just made in more modern times."
I’m inclined towards the “getting too hung up on set design continuity in shows made 60 years apart is mostly a way to make yourself mad” side of things, but Enterprise is a good example of that mindset being used with purpose. The fact the technology is analog and the ship has the dimensions and aesthetic of a space submarine dovetails nicely with the central vibe of the show, especially early on: humanity is taking baby steps here in equipment that’s not truly ready for what they may face, but they’re gonna make a go of it anyway by god.
And also just… the show has a cool, unique look.

While the overall “Discovery updated the technology too much” thing isn’t a huge deal for me, the interior design of the Discovery herself is kinda blah because it shares a problem a lot of discovery has: this has a lot of ‘we just want to show off how ~cinematic~ we are now’ touches. The holo-communications, the HUD consoles, all that is just busy without adding much of anything.
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Yukaphile wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:42 am But it is even worse in Rey's case since she's just a bastardized fusion of Jaina Solo to a 21st century generation's Luke Skywalker, and it doesn't work nearly as well as either of those characters did prior to 2015.
I love the Old EU as much as the next man but the Solo Family was crashed and burned well before Kylo Ren.
Yukaphile wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:16 am Yeah, but I think the REAL question to be asking ourselves is: Are today's progressives REALLY the right people, the right ideology, to lead us into the future?
I suppose it depends whether you see today's progressives as people who are being attacked by racists and misogynists who are engaged in a culture war that wants to destroy all progress over the past 50 years or whether you see them as snowflakes attacking people over nothing.

Because if you have an answer to the above, it's very likely you're having a different argument than the other side.
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Makeshift Python wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:16 pm I genuinely believe if DISCO had actually stuck to the aesthetics of TOS, not only would it have been a less controversial show among fandom, it would have been given a pass for simply adhering to the old look, perhaps even COMMENDED for doing that. But because the makers had the gall to “update” the look of the universe, that was perceived by fans as a slight against the original series, it told them “your previous TOS wasn’t good enough”, and from that point on they viewed any Kurtzman production in bad faith because they did the unforgivable. That’s not how I perceive it, but I’ve seen a lot take it that way. Especially given how Star Wars in contrast actually replicated the 70s aesthetics so faithfully that you have loads of fans who commend ROGUE ONE for being accurate on that front, and Trek fans are absolutely jealous that the other big space franchise is getting away with it.
I mean, Gene Roddenberry never remotely indulged the effects argument at Cons. "No, Klingons always looked like this. No, there's no magic that changed their appearance. The sets in the real Enterprise don't look like they're made of cardboard."
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Personally they should have keep the color schemes and styles but change what the sets are made from
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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CharlesPhipps wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:55 pmI suppose it depends whether you see today's progressives as people who are being attacked by racists and misogynists who are engaged in a culture war that wants to destroy all progress over the past 50 years or whether you see them as snowflakes attacking people over nothing.
Can't they be both? I mean, not necessarily in equal amounts, but just because you are fighting against jerks doesn't mean, that you can't be a jerk yourself.
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CharlesPhipps
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Re: Alex Kurtzman signs 4 year contract extension worth $160 Million

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Thebestoftherest wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:29 pm Personally they should have keep the color schemes and styles but change what the sets are made from
I really like what they did in Season 2.

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