Star Trek: Discovery - spoilery thoughts?

[Yukaphile]

What shocks me the most is how some of the hate is expressed among the average netgoer trashing this show for "SJW views." Honestly, it's reaching the point where I feel like I'm under attack because by their definition, "I" would be an SJW, even though I look down on SJWs (and I'm a center left liberal, not a fanatic), so I find that offensive.

[CharlesPhipps]

Kahless did kill both Surak and Abraham Lincoln in his first appearance as part of the evil team, which I can't see Worf doing. I think Worf's outlook is more of a hybrid: he's an honourable warrior who fights to defend the Enterprise whereas most other Klingons fight for glory i.e for the sake of fighting which is going to be pretty destructive if your whole society revolves around that even if it is done honourably. It also makes Worf kind of a tragic character by being too human for Klingon town and too much of a Klingon for human town.

Eh, that wasn't the 'real' Kahless it should be noted. The creators have stated they revised their view of Kahless since he wasn't originally intended to be the Klingon King Arthur/Mithras. Also, the idea of all Klingons being warriors is a later product according to ENT "Judgement" like how the Imperial Japanese invoked the idea of the samurai for all of its soldiers despite that initially being only part of the warrior cast which Kor stated was still in existence as late as DS9. It just resulted in there being a "meritocracy" element where peasants could end up joining the military and ascending to the nobility as we see with Martok.

And yes, we're taking Klingon history far too seriously given they make stuff up as they go along all the time. For me, I like the fact Klingon honor is a real thing and not just "humans taught Worf how to be a better Klingon" because I'm not a big fan of the "humans are special" lovefest.

[Dînadan]

And yes, we're taking Klingon history far too seriously given they make stuff up as they go along all the time. For me, I like the fact Klingon honor is a real thing and not just "humans taught Worf how to be a better Klingon" because I'm not a big fan of the "humans are special" lovefest.

My personal take on Worf, based on what we see, is less ‘special humans taught him to be better’ and more a case of a mix of him overcompensating due to being raised by humans and him only having inaccurate accounts of Klingon society and/or sanitised Klingon King Arthur myths to base his idea of what a Klingon is; it’d be like someone basing their idea of what a knight is off L’mort d’Arthur and D&D Lawful Stupid paladins running into actual medieval knights. The only way human ‘specialness’ comes into play is that the only reason he wouldn’t have turned out the same way if raised by Romulans, Cardassian or Ferengi is that those races would have tried to instill their own ideas and attitudes in him rather than giving him free reign to be who he wanted to be. The only other big impact humans had on him is the story he told Dax in one episode about why he has so much self control due to accidentally killing a kid due to lacking it; if he’d been raised by a less fragile race he’d probably be more free spirited like other Klingons are.

[technobabbler]

What shocks me the most is how some of the hate is expressed among the average netgoer trashing this show for "SJW views." ...

the funny thing is---assuming for joke's/argument's sake that STD = 100% SJW, where does our African-American protagonist end up at the end of the first episode? .....jail.

I'm more annoyed by Michael Burnham's constant Wesley Crusher/Mary Sue-ism, her complete disrespect for the chain of command in episode 1 and the contradiction in which the writers have no problems with her permanently labeling the Klingons as savage warmongers but with the Tardigrade, Michael embraces her inner humanity and frees Willy.

[CharlesPhipps]

What shocks me the most is how some of the hate is expressed among the average netgoer trashing this show for "SJW views." ...

the funny thing is---assuming for joke's/argument's sake that STD = 100% SJW, where does our African-American protagonist end up at the end of the first episode? .....jail.

I'm more annoyed by Michael Burnham's constant Wesley Crusher/Mary Sue-ism, her complete disrespect for the chain of command in episode 1 and the contradiction in which the writers have no problems with her permanently labeling the Klingons as savage warmongers but with the Tardigrade, Michael embraces her inner humanity and frees Willy.

It is a kind of strange "Star Trek by way of Homeland" that Michael is trying to say she's not racist against Klingons but they really are a bunch of murderous assholes.

And the fact she's RIGHT.

[J!!]

"And now you presume to know their motivation because it is "in their nature"? Considering your background, I would think you're the last person to make assumptions based on race."

"With respect, it would be unwise to confuse race and culture"

[technobabbler]

"
"With respect, it would be unwise to confuse race and culture"

so Michael Burnham gave me the green light to be prejudiced against (white or black) gangsta rappers?

[Yukaphile]

Should I give this a chance, though? I mean, we all know Voyager and Enterprise aren't that good, but I've mostly been following this from reviews and other people who watched it, and it doesn't sound that good. At best, it's "meh," and at worst, it's more unnecessary changes to the Star Trek mythos, so I am rather indifferent. Like, do they explain why the Klingons have their forehead ridges back? It's set before TOS, yes? Thus they have to have SMOOTH foreheads. I mean, even Enterprise was consistent on that.

[GandALF]

Of course captains can get a court martial for not saving the whales.

[Karha of Honor]

What shocks me the most is how some of the hate is expressed among the average netgoer trashing this show for "SJW views." ...

the funny thing is---assuming for joke's/argument's sake that STD = 100% SJW, where does our African-American protagonist end up at the end of the first episode? .....jail.

I'm more annoyed by Michael Burnham's constant Wesley Crusher/Mary Sue-ism, her complete disrespect for the chain of command in episode 1 and the contradiction in which the writers have no problems with her permanently labeling the Klingons as savage warmongers but with the Tardigrade, Michael embraces her inner humanity and frees Willy.

At least she is on ship where that stuff can happen. Look at Napoleon's career and ask how fast would he advance if he was in the Royalist French Army in peaceful times...

Is this series a partial ctritique on Islam they just decided to get attacked by the right with outrageous interviews? Flase Flag Virtue Signaling?

I coined it.