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CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:56 amI'm just saying the, "Nazis are really left wing" thing is the dumbest thing ever. They're the embodiment of a Far Right party.
I didn't say they were "left wing", I said they were Socialist. They were Socialist within one nation, being not a formal political entity but a 'people'. And they were quite enthusiastic about ridding their society of everyone not within their nation.
It's a weird meme designed to discredit the accusations of Far Right groups leaning into fascism or, you know, non-evil Socialism.
There is no such thing as non-evil Socialism, Mr. Phipps. There is only Socialism you approve of, and Socialism you disapprove of.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:56 amI'm just saying the, "Nazis are really left wing" thing is the dumbest thing ever. They're the embodiment of a Far Right party.
I didn't say they were "left wing", I said they were Socialist. They were Socialist within one nation, being not a formal political entity but a 'people'. And they were quite enthusiastic about ridding their society of everyone not within their nation.
In what way were they socialist? Because economically they were very capitalist and massively expanded the power and wealth of big business and privatized most of the assets of the German government. These are things fundamentally antithetical to socialism.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:56 amI'm just saying the, "Nazis are really left wing" thing is the dumbest thing ever. They're the embodiment of a Far Right party.
I didn't say they were "left wing", I said they were Socialist. They were Socialist within one nation, being not a formal political entity but a 'people'. And they were quite enthusiastic about ridding their society of everyone not within their nation.
It's a weird meme designed to discredit the accusations of Far Right groups leaning into fascism or, you know, non-evil Socialism.
There is no such thing as non-evil Socialism, Mr. Phipps. There is only Socialism you approve of, and Socialism you disapprove of.
Ok seriously, what the heck are you using that word to mean? That was complete gibberish under any definition of Socialism I can dig up.
...for space is wide, and good friends are too few.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:56 amI'm just saying the, "Nazis are really left wing" thing is the dumbest thing ever. They're the embodiment of a Far Right party.
I didn't say they were "left wing", I said they were Socialist. They were Socialist within one nation, being not a formal political entity but a 'people'. And they were quite enthusiastic about ridding their society of everyone not within their nation.
It's a weird meme designed to discredit the accusations of Far Right groups leaning into fascism or, you know, non-evil Socialism.
There is no such thing as non-evil Socialism, Mr. Phipps. There is only Socialism you approve of, and Socialism you disapprove of.
Ok seriously, what the heck are you using that word to mean? That was complete gibberish under any definition of Socialism I can dig up.
I believe his definition is 'thing that is immoral'. We've got another 'heads I win, tails I win', anti-debate type on our hands.
Last edited by ProfessorDetective on Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:15 am
I wonder if he's one of those guys who thinks communism=socialism.
I mean for one communists ultimately want to eliminate the state where as an ideological socialist does not.
Speaking as the anti-communist anarchist: There's also the fact communism has specific branches that are pretty much, "Asshole Authoritarian" and "Totalitarian Nightmare." But it's not synonymous with them. Socialism is much-much wider branch of things too.
See George Orwell writing 1984 to go, "This is everything it is NOT supposed to be, jackasses."
There's even a pair of words for the generic non-authoritarian version: democratic socialist. Being socialists who believe in...*drumroll* Democracy.
I… think it’s important to make a distinction there.
Neither second world empire thought of themselves as communist. The USSR was the Union of Soviet socialist republics, and while the CCP uses the word, the party line was and remains that communism is generations away and they work diligently to pave the way.
So like, Leninism does tend to create a dictatorship lead by nominal revolutionaries, but it’s meant as a path to communism. Just, the loudest asshole who promises to hurt the old ruling class the hardest has a way of winning power struggles over those who want to improve the lives of the people.
Edit: put another way, I think making clear distinction between communist (people who aim to achieve communism) and communists (people who live under communism) is important to avoid getting bogged down in semantics about what communism is. There’s certainly disagreement on what communism could or should look like, but very few would argue that the Soviets or CCP achieved it, and indeed if we’re smart we’d look to them for lessons as to the flaws and shortcomings of Leninist models (or having a State at all, as I imagine Draco would point out)
Last edited by CmdrKing on Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
CmdrKing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:28 am
I… think it’s important to make a distinction there.
Neither second world empire thought of themselves as communist. The USSR was the Union of Soviet socialist republics, and while the CCP uses the word, the party line was and remains that communism is generations away and they work diligently to pave the way.
So like, Leninism does tend to create a dictatorship lead by nominal revolutionaries, but it’s meant as a path to communism. Just, the loudest asshole who promises to hurt the old ruling class the hardest has a way of winning power struggles over those who want to improve the lives of the people.
Ehhhh, that's kind of the roundabout thinking that the party specialized in. Communism was their ideology and stated endgoal but like the City of God, it's not really the end result that mattered but what the organization was doing at the exact moment that mattered. The fact that Leninism also lasted a century and spread dictatorships and anti-democratic ideals across the globe doesn't get a pass because they said, "It's only an intermediate stage."
