Poiltical Ad Appeals to Left's Absolute Terror of Not Being Told How to Live

[Draco Dracul]

I'm just saying the, "Nazis are really left wing" thing is the dumbest thing ever. They're the embodiment of a Far Right party.

I didn't say they were "left wing", I said they were Socialist. They were Socialist within one nation, being not a formal political entity but a 'people'. And they were quite enthusiastic about ridding their society of everyone not within their nation.

In what way were they socialist? Because economically they were very capitalist and massively expanded the power and wealth of big business and privatized most of the assets of the German government. These are things fundamentally antithetical to socialism.

The Nazi Party's 25 point platform included these gems. It is certainly arguable that when given the chance they governed as a criminal gang outside of any ideology, but then so did the Bolsheviks. The Nazis never disavowed theses elements of their official platform.

"7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

We demand therefore:

11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

The breaking of the slavery of interest

12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the notion of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

21. The State must ensure that the nation’s health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary [i.e. professional] army and the formation of a people’s army.

23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:

(a) that all editors of, and contributors to newspapers appearing in the German language must be members of the nation;

(b) that no non-German newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be printed in the German language;

(c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved.

The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand."

Most of these would not sound odd coming out of Bernie Sanders's mouth. It is diificult to see how in its official ideology or how it governed that Nazi Germany was a free market capitalist society, rather than one oriented toward a collectivist understanding of the economy's relation to the State.

The so went against these points that the term privatization was originally coined in english to describe the Nazi economic policy.

[hammerofglass]

Sterilization of the mentally handicapped, the epileptics, and the deformed was a specifically socialist policy, imposed by socialist governments.

And remember, 'Nazi' is short for the German for "National Socialist".

This you?

[Frustration]

I'm sorry, hammerofglass, I didn't realize you had reading comprehension issues.

You're very brave.

[CharlesPhipps]

Hitler stole Mussoloni's idea anyway in which the government would back the corporations for the supposed benefit of the many.

Which, of course, meant superpowerful corporations that dominated and exploited the working man (or had actual slave labor) because they were feeding into the war machine.

[Yukaphile]

As a dead independent liberal centrist, it's so amusing to me to watch hardcore lefties duke it out with hardcore righties as to whether Nazism was socialism or capitalism. As someone who's never taken an economics class, I'm fine with both sides believing whatever the fuck they want to think, but blaming the other side for the worsening of culture now as opposed to the societal elite, even though both sides agree they benefit off our divisions. Though I will admit I've never met people more self-obsessed with purity standards than the leftists, and I have no idea how they came about. Maybe you guys should talk to conservatives in other countries. By the shifting metrics of what constitutes "progressivism" today, I'd be a conservative, so why not.

[Mickey_Rat15]

Hitler stole Mussoloni's idea anyway in which the government would back the corporations for the supposed benefit of the many.

Which, of course, meant superpowerful corporations that dominated and exploited the working man (or had actual slave labor) because they were feeding into the war machine.

Which is not what "corporation" means with regards to fascist economics:

"corporatism, Italian corporativismo, also called corporativism, the theory and practice of organizing society into “corporations” subordinate to the state. According to corporatist theory, workers and employers would be organized into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and controlling to a large extent the persons and activities within their jurisdiction."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/corporatism

[CmdrKing]

As a dead independent liberal centrist, it's so amusing to me to watch hardcore lefties duke it out with hardcore righties as to whether Nazism was socialism or capitalism. As someone who's never taken an economics class, I'm fine with both sides believing whatever the fuck they want to think, but blaming the other side for the worsening of culture now as opposed to the societal elite, even though both sides agree they benefit off our divisions. Though I will admit I've never met people more self-obsessed with purity standards than the leftists, and I have no idea how they came about. Maybe you guys should talk to conservatives in other countries. By the shifting metrics of what constitutes "progressivism" today, I'd be a conservative, so why not.

That’s what easy: the far right are composed of two groups, the societal elites you don’t hear about on the daily and the millions of petty rich who aspire to earn their favor.

Like, you think genuinely poor people can deck themselves out in the latest civilian grade tactical gear and fly their asses out to the capitol on two weeks notice? C’mon now.

[Draco Dracul]

As a dead independent liberal centrist, it's so amusing to me to watch hardcore lefties duke it out with hardcore righties as to whether Nazism was socialism or capitalism.

The reason that hardcore righties want to paint the Nazis as socialist is that beating the Nazis is a point of cultural pride for Americans, but the hardcore right want to impliment many of the same policies as the Nazis. It's why the list of thier victims tends to be narrowed to just the Jews, and while striking imagery of thier evil tends to be removed from context. Did you know that the specific image of Nazi book burning is from the destruction of a sexual research institution that was a major advocate of gay and trans rights, and was a major pioneer in trans medicine?

As someone who's never taken an economics class, I'm fine with both sides believing whatever the fuck they want to think, but blaming the other side for the worsening of culture now as opposed to the societal elite, even though both sides agree they benefit off our divisions.

The reason the societal elite benefit from divisions between people is capitalism. The hard right is largely on the side of the societal Elite. Even as they denounce them with words, the support policy that empowers the rich at the cost of the rest of us. There is a reason that the complete divorce from productivity and wages starts with Reagan.

Though I will admit I've never met people more self-obsessed with purity standards than the leftists, and I have no idea how they came about. Maybe you guys should talk to conservatives in other countries. By the shifting metrics of what constitutes "progressivism" today, I'd be a conservative, so why not.

Talking to conservatives in my country pushed me left because there is an inherent callousness to anyone who is both informed enough to understand their own position beyond treating politics as a team sport and is still conservative.

[Frustration]

As a dead independent liberal centrist, it's so amusing to me to watch hardcore lefties duke it out with hardcore righties as to whether Nazism was socialism or capitalism.

Yukaphile, I rather doubt you've ever encountered a hardcore lefty OR righty. They're rarer than most people think.

In any case, ideology tends not to matter when you start seeking power before all else. The methods converge.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Hitler stole Mussoloni's idea anyway in which the government would back the corporations for the supposed benefit of the many.

Which, of course, meant superpowerful corporations that dominated and exploited the working man (or had actual slave labor) because they were feeding into the war machine.

Which is not what "corporation" means with regards to fascist economics:

"corporatism, Italian corporativismo, also called corporativism, the theory and practice of organizing society into “corporations” subordinate to the state. According to corporatist theory, workers and employers would be organized into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and controlling to a large extent the persons and activities within their jurisdiction."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/corporatism

where do you find the difference?