Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

For all topics regarding speculative fiction of every stripe. Otherwise known as the Geek Cave.
Post Reply
User avatar
Winter
Captain
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by Winter »

Because I'm honestly curious and I want to see what JMS has to say, unlike some others who are content to damn the show before they see it purely on the grounds that it is a reboot.
To answer all the questions, yes, it’s true, Babylon 5 is in active development as a series for the CW. We have some serious fans over at the network, and they’re eager to see this show happen. I’m hip deep into writing the pilot now, and will be running the series upon pickup. The network understands the uniqueness of Babylon 5 and is giving me a great deal of latitude with the storytelling.
So, off to a good start, the idea that there are fans of the original show who are working to make this possible WITH JMS' help with him reprising his role as show runner does mean that there is a positive atmosphere in the workplace. The fact that JMS says that the CW understands the uniqueness of BS is also a good sign which is backed up by them having him return as show runner and that they are giving JMS their full support.
As noted in the announcement, this is a reboot from the ground up rather than a continuation, for several reasons. Heraclitus wrote “You cannot step in the same river twice, for the river has changed, and you have changed.” In the years since B5, I’ve done a ton of other TV shows and movies, adding an equal number of tools to my toolbox, all of which I can bring to bear on one singular question: if I were creating Babylon 5 today, for the first time, knowing what I now know as a writer, what would it look like? How would it use all the storytelling tools and technological resources available in 2021 that were not on hand then?
I will admit this does make me a bit nerves Reboot that is working to be something new because of the changing times has a hit or miss history to it. Just to take on example of it going badly A Series of Unfortunate Events on Netflix wasn't a adaptation of the books it was a Reboot of the novels which many fans of the books have mixed feelings about and speaking as someone who only knows of the series through the movie (which I actually enjoyed just FYI) I didn't much care for the show. BUT you all know my love for She-Ra which is a MASSIVE reboot that takes ideas from the original and takes more modern ideas to them and that show was a huge hit with critics and viewers alike and while it has a more mixed reception with the older fanbase many new fans of the series said they got into He-Man BECAUSE of the She-Ra Reboot.
How can it be used to reflect the world in which we live, and the questions we are asking and confronting every day? Fans regularly point out how prescient the show was and is of our current world; it would be fun to take a shot at looking further down the road. So we will not be retelling the same story in the same way because of what Heraclitus said about the river. There would be no fun and no surprises. Better to go the way of Westworld or Battlestar Galactica where you take the original elements that are evergreens and put them in a blender with a ton of new, challenging ideas, to create something fresh yet familiar.
In relation to my last point I do wonder if JMS was inspired by She-Ra to do this reboot which more of less does what Westworld and Battlestar Galactica which, again, took the many ideas from the original and remade it with more modern ideas to tell its story.
To those asking why not just do a continuation, for a network series like this, it can’t be done because over half our cast are still stubbornly on the other side of the Rim.

How do you telling continuing story of our original Londo without the original Vir? Or G’Kar? How do you tell Sheridan’s story without Delenn? Or the story of B5 without Franklin? Garibaldi? Zack?
I get where he's coming from and while you might think why not just have a Next Generation Sequel that focuses on new characters B5 kinda already tried that with the Rangers Spin-off (which again I actually liked that's besides the point) and there's also the issue of trying to make a new story when B5 already did that by showing the fallout of ALL the choices the heroes made in the Season 4 finally. So, not only would JMS be retrying an idea that already failed but he would need to try to work within his own frame work and THAT already was met with a rather luckwarm reception in Voices in the Dark. So, in addition to losing many great actors who really captured their characters JMS already tried all this and it failed so going for a straight-up remake does make sense.

We'll no doubt see the return of the original continuity as that's becoming something of a trend right now and odds are he might be going for a Star Trek 2009 thing where it's revealed that this is a alternate universe so there could be a literal crossover later on.
The original Babylon 5 was ridiculously innovative: the first to use CGI to create ships and characters, and among the very first to shoot widescreen with a vigorous 5.1 mix. Most of all, for the first time, Babylon 5 introduced viewers accustomed to episodic television to the concept of a five-year arc with a pre-planned beginning, middle and end…creating a brand new paradigm for television storytelling that has subsequently become the norm. That tradition for innovation will continue in this new iteration, and I hope to create additional new forms of storytelling that will further push the television medium to the edge of what’s possible.
While I don't think B5 was the first show to really use episodic television it WAS one of the series that popularized it AND is often used a good to example of how to do it well... BUT While JMS did clearly plan SOMETHINGS out like George Lucas I think he's overstating how planned out he made the show as he has admitted in the past how he had to change things due to executive meddling and needing to make Season 5 from nothing after the studio told him they were cutting the show short only for him to get a fifth season. That's not intended as an insult just a observation, JMS DID clearly plan the show out but a lot of it was being made up as he went along. But with the advancement and a more supportive studio JMS will hopefully be able to make a show with fewer trap doors then before.
Let me conclude by just saying how supportive and enthusiastic everyone at the CW has been and is being with this project. They understand the unique position Babylon 5 occupies both in television and with its legions of fans, and are doing everything they can to ensure the maximum in creative freedom, a new story that will bring in new viewers while honoring all that has come before.

Onward!
Again, a good sign that the studio is backing JMS on this AND are fans of the original. To quote another show I love "It's never good to stay in the past to long." Time marches on, we change and the person we were a few years ago is not the same person we are today. Maybe the Babylon 5 Reboot will join the ranks of She-Ra and be one of the new standards to which all reboots are measured or maybe it will be seen as a lackluster follow up to a beloved classic like the Star Wars Disney Sequel Trilogy has become. We don't know at this point, all we know is that the show and it's creator have the support of the studio, we have a writer who has had many hits over the years up to and including the incredible Sense8 and no matter what, this will draw attention to the original series. so, matter what the Original B5 will benefit from this so there's always a positive outlook to things. :D
User avatar
CharlesPhipps
Captain
Posts: 4953
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by CharlesPhipps »

I'll watch it but I kind of wish it was set a hundred years later or something similar. The problem was JMS wrote himself into a corner by giving a complete ending to everything. Also, he was always chasing the next Shadows.
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by Yukaphile »

I'd PREFER a new story set in the same universe, further into the timeline or set into the ancient past (like exploring what Valen did after he returned to the past - while honoring the canon books, of course), not a remake or a reimagining, which this clearly is. And they are remaking it to give it to the new customer base of "younger, more progressive fans." The same lies they've told themselves for ten years now that always end very badly, with mixed reception and a divided fandom. Hollywood and most especially the marketing has lied for years now. Don't believe them. Don't trust them. Look at how badly they lied for TLOUII, tricking you into believing it was a new adventure with Ellie and Joel, except they shoehorned in Abby, this new blue-checkmarked character no one cared about. Plus it was very poor as a revenge story, since revenge gave Abby everything she had wanted while Ellie lost it all. LOL. Yes, it's easy to damn any older IPs being brought into today's climate before they even land with all the rapid cultural shifts since then and the toxic malice oozing out of Hollywood. I cannot get excited for anything. As I said, I'll give even a new Stargate sequel show a chance, but I have no faith in that. I hate reboots, ergo, I won't support this. Remember the announcement Patrick Stewart was a creative consultant for the new Picard show? Since I'd watch Chuck's channel for years, I myself was very skeptical of what it would mean. I was right. I will be here as well. Remakes RARELY wind up better than the original. Oh look. A Babylon 5 remake coming right off the heels of an announced KOTOR remake. What's next, a Teletubbies remake? :roll:

The positive I will state is that AT LEAST it can't taint the source material. Given how often Hollywood seems to love to butcher mythos for a quick buck, I can appreciate that the original will remain, but the divided fanbase, most especially over graphics, still irks me. The problem is no one's going to care after this and JMS will not bite the hand buttering his bread. We've seen this before. Pre-reboot, Zahn said it would be the worst thing ever, very messy, and hurt the publishing industry even more. He was right. After the buyout, he became the reboot's biggest cheerleader. No different. They are not going to sacrifice their paychecks by speaking their mind. How is this so shocking in America's landscape of increasing greed? So don't trust even JMS. Time will show the truth and vindicate me. Look at how Kathleen Kennedy herself claimed they want to honor and respect the lore, right in front of George Lucas, no less. Yeah, no one who's thinking rationally sees that's the goal with them.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Winter
Captain
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by Winter »

Yukaphile wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:50 am I'd PREFER a new story set in the same universe, further into the timeline or set into the ancient past (like exploring what Valen did after he returned to the past - while honoring the canon books, of course), not a remake or a reimagining, which this clearly is. And they are remaking it to give it to the new customer base of "younger, more progressive fans." The same lies they've told themselves for ten years now that always end very badly, with mixed reception and a divided fandom. Hollywood and most especially the marketing has lied for years now. Don't believe them. Don't trust them. Look at how badly they lied for TLOUII, tricking you into believing it was a new adventure with Ellie and Joel, except they shoehorned in Abby, this new blue-checkmarked character no one cared about. Plus it was very poor as a revenge story, since revenge gave Abby everything she had wanted while Ellie lost it all. LOL. Yes, it's easy to damn any older IPs being brought into today's climate before they even land with all the rapid cultural shifts since then and the toxic malice oozing out of Hollywood. I cannot get excited for anything. As I said, I'll give even a new Stargate sequel show a chance, but I have no faith in that. I hate reboots, ergo, I won't support this. Remember the announcement Patrick Stewart was a creative consultant for the new Picard show? Since I'd watch Chuck's channel for years, I myself was very skeptical of what it would mean. I was right. I will be here as well. Remakes RARELY wind up better than the original. Oh look. A Babylon 5 remake coming right off the heels of an announced KOTOR remake. What's next, a Teletubbies remake? :roll:

The positive I will state is that AT LEAST it can't taint the source material. Given how often Hollywood seems to love to butcher mythos for a quick buck, I can appreciate that the original will remain, but the divided fanbase, most especially over graphics, still irks me. The problem is no one's going to care after this and JMS will not bite the hand buttering his bread. We've seen this before. Pre-reboot, Zahn said it would be the worst thing ever, very messy, and hurt the publishing industry even more. He was right. After the buyout, he became the reboot's biggest cheerleader. No different. They are not going to sacrifice their paychecks by speaking their mind. How is this so shocking in America's landscape of increasing greed? So don't trust even JMS. Time will show the truth and vindicate me. Look at how Kathleen Kennedy herself claimed they want to honor and respect the lore, right in front of George Lucas, no less. Yeah, no one who's thinking rationally sees that's the goal with them.
Yukaphile? Enough!

You have used this exact same argument and I've gotten tired of it. You have complain about things being made, not being made, being rebooted and so forth. Unless you have something NEW to add please stop posting the same 2 or 3 things. I was patient with you before and you did add something to the conversation but you are now just hitting the same notes and I don't care anymore.

I don't care for your habit insulting any and all creators, ignoring what anyone has to say or saying your being bullied when you yourself have indulged in bulling, insulting or belittling others. You have made comments that have been in poor taste and have brought up anything to flip the argument to something that has nothing to do with anything just because it would get people talking.

One of the points made on the Forum Guidelines is to remain civil and level headed about all discussions. You have been rude and have not remained level headed, often getting into arguments or seeking to start one. I'm asking you to be polite and to try new things.

And on the subject of the B5 Reboot you have stated that you have already made up your mind and have already judged the show to be inferior so stop saying that and try something new!
User avatar
McAvoy
Captain
Posts: 3907
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:55 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by McAvoy »

I am getting popcorn and some beef jerky for this one. Winter versus Yukaphile.
I got nothing to say here.
User avatar
Winter
Captain
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by Winter »

McAvoy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:47 am I am getting popcorn and some beef jerky for this one. Winter versus Yukaphile.
Don't get comfortable I don't intend to reply to them after this.
User avatar
McAvoy
Captain
Posts: 3907
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:55 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by McAvoy »

Winter wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:49 am
McAvoy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:47 am I am getting popcorn and some beef jerky for this one. Winter versus Yukaphile.
Don't get comfortable I don't intend to reply to them after this.
And I just got comfortable. Got me some jerky, popcorn and beer.

Oh well.

I am curious in what JMS will do this time around. I will post more when I have time.
I got nothing to say here.
User avatar
Winter
Captain
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by Winter »

McAvoy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:50 am And I just got comfortable. Got me some jerky, popcorn and beer.

Oh well.

I am curious in what JMS will do this time around. I will post more when I have time.
I look forward to reading your opinion. Even if I don't agree with you it will be nice to know what you think. Sincerely. :)
User avatar
CharlesPhipps
Captain
Posts: 4953
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by CharlesPhipps »

I'd PREFER a new story set in the same universe, further into the timeline or set into the ancient past (like exploring what Valen did after he returned to the past - while honoring the canon books, of course), not a remake or a reimagining, which this clearly is. And they are remaking it to give it to the new customer base of "younger, more progressive fans."
JMS is to the left of me and I'm a raging progressive nutjob.

I swear, even when we agree, we somehow disagree.
User avatar
Nealithi
Captain
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Breaking Down JMS' Tweets on the Upcoming Babylon 5 Reboot

Post by Nealithi »

I want to back up a moment. JMS said he does not intend to tell the same story.

So who says he will have any of the original characters? Taking a page from BSG he could keep the station and maybe the Starfurys. Then redo all of it. No Sinclair, Delenn, Londo, or really any of those people. He told their tale after all. But the B5 setting as a ground point for something new. Could he be bringing an entirely new tale from the same point of view?
Post Reply