Lesbians being pressured into sex by pre-op transwomen

[Draco Dracul]

BTW, have you noticed that this only ever goes one way? Transmen aren't complaining that they cannot have sex with men, transmen aren't complaining that they cannot use men's prisons.

My actual, real-life gay trans friend is annoyed because a lot of men get grossed out when they find out he's a vagina. He says this is a common problem.

The issue here is what one is defining the problem as. Is it that your friend is looking for a gay man who does not mind having a partner with a vagina, which presumably is a small subset of a relatively small subset of the population thereby narrowing your friend's choices considerably, or is the problem that gay men generally prefer sex partners who have penises?

Defining it as the latter implies there is something wrong with having a sexual preference.

This is why I don't understand the trans community. I am all for them to be what they want or need to be to make themselves feel comfortable in their own skin. I don't understand but I do accept.

The vanilla gay community I understand. A gay man likes men. A gay woman likes women. Got it. Love. Makes sense to me.

The fundamental thing to understand is that trans men are men and trans women are women . A relationship between a trans man and a cis (non trans) man is a gay relationship.

[Madner Kami]

Is that a common occurrence in your life? Because it sounds like a hugely unlikely and contrived scenario that would require everyone involved to consciously choose to make a series of bad decisions to get there.

I don't see the point you are trying to make. Whether or how often it happens to me or to anyone isn't part of the discussion. It's about what is going on if it happens.

[Mickey_Rat15]

BTW, have you noticed that this only ever goes one way? Transmen aren't complaining that they cannot have sex with men, transmen aren't complaining that they cannot use men's prisons.

My actual, real-life gay trans friend is annoyed because a lot of men get grossed out when they find out he's a vagina. He says this is a common problem.

The issue here is what one is defining the problem as. Is it that your friend is looking for a gay man who does not mind having a partner with a vagina, which presumably is a small subset of a relatively small subset of the population thereby narrowing your friend's choices considerably, or is the problem that gay men generally prefer sex partners who have penises?

Defining it as the latter implies there is something wrong with having a sexual preference.

This is why I don't understand the trans community. I am all for them to be what they want or need to be to make themselves feel comfortable in their own skin. I don't understand but I do accept.

The vanilla gay community I understand. A gay man likes men. A gay woman likes women. Got it. Love. Makes sense to me.

The trans community isn't actually that hard to understand. They just want to be recognized as themselves, rather than what other people decide they are. Trans men want people to stop telling them that they are women, trans women want people to stop telling them that they are men, and trans nonbinary people want others to recognize that they don't fit neatly into the Man or Woman box and treat them accordingly.

The reason I brought up my friend was because he flatly contradicts OP's "This only happens with trans women" assertion.

Except that transwomen are, in a fundamental way, not women, and transmen are in a fundamental way, not men and are not fully interchangable with them. That the trans community apparently demands that they be treated as fully interchangable and any refusal to do so as mentally aberrant is an unreasonable and untenable position.

[Mickey_Rat15]

[/quote]
Of course the defense that they're being "tricked" or "trapped" is based on transphobia, especially violently so.
[/quote]

I did not say it was a defense, I was saying it is not an unexpected reaction. Calling it based on "transphobia" is saying that having a negative emotional response to such a situation is abnormal, and while violence is generally unacceptable, I very much disagree to call such a response abnormal.

[Mickey_Rat15]

BTW, have you noticed that this only ever goes one way? Transmen aren't complaining that they cannot have sex with men, transmen aren't complaining that they cannot use men's prisons.

My actual, real-life gay trans friend is annoyed because a lot of men get grossed out when they find out he's a vagina. He says this is a common problem.

The issue here is what one is defining the problem as. Is it that your friend is looking for a gay man who does not mind having a partner with a vagina, which presumably is a small subset of a relatively small subset of the population thereby narrowing your friend's choices considerably, or is the problem that gay men generally prefer sex partners who have penises?

Defining it as the latter implies there is something wrong with having a sexual preference.

This is why I don't understand the trans community. I am all for them to be what they want or need to be to make themselves feel comfortable in their own skin. I don't understand but I do accept.

The vanilla gay community I understand. A gay man likes men. A gay woman likes women. Got it. Love. Makes sense to me.

The fundamental thing to understand is that trans men are men and trans women are women . A relationship between a trans man and a cis (non trans) man is a gay relationship.

Except, apparently, there are a lot of gay people who disagree with that assertion and think their sexual orientation is based on the sex of their potential parrtner, not the gender identity.

Your statement is, at best, controversial.

[CharlesPhipps]

Except, apparently, there are a lot of gay people who disagree with that assertion and think their sexual orientation is based on the sex of their potential parrtner, not the gender identity.

Your statement is, at best, controversial.

Yes and not all trans people are gay nor do all gay people support trans rights. Trans men and women seek recognition as the sex their brain functions as. My general take on the subject is, "Treat them as the sex they identify as. Because it will cause immense suffering to them otherwise."

[hammerofglass]

Is that a common occurrence in your life? Because it sounds like a hugely unlikely and contrived scenario that would require everyone involved to consciously choose to make a series of bad decisions to get there.

I don't see the point you are trying to make. Whether or how often it happens to me or to anyone isn't part of the discussion. It's about what is going on if it happens.

It's your scenario that you brought up to justify treating millions of people in an already hated group as lesser over an inherent trait. That it basically never happens seems pretty damn relevant.

Honestly you did it so broadly you could fit anything in there. "You're well into the relationship only to feel betrayed you found out they're x (colorblind, Jewish grandma, voted for other party) therefore x are all decievers."

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

BTW, have you noticed that this only ever goes one way? Transmen aren't complaining that they cannot have sex with men, transmen aren't complaining that they cannot use men's prisons.

My actual, real-life gay trans friend is annoyed because a lot of men get grossed out when they find out he's a vagina. He says this is a common problem.

The issue here is what one is defining the problem as. Is it that your friend is looking for a gay man who does not mind having a partner with a vagina, which presumably is a small subset of a relatively small subset of the population thereby narrowing your friend's choices considerably, or is the problem that gay men generally prefer sex partners who have penises?

Defining it as the latter implies there is something wrong with having a sexual preference.

This is why I don't understand the trans community. I am all for them to be what they want or need to be to make themselves feel comfortable in their own skin. I don't understand but I do accept.

The vanilla gay community I understand. A gay man likes men. A gay woman likes women. Got it. Love. Makes sense to me.

The trans community isn't actually that hard to understand. They just want to be recognized as themselves, rather than what other people decide they are. Trans men want people to stop telling them that they are women, trans women want people to stop telling them that they are men, and trans nonbinary people want others to recognize that they don't fit neatly into the Man or Woman box and treat them accordingly.

The reason I brought up my friend was because he flatly contradicts OP's "This only happens with trans women" assertion.

Except that transwomen are, in a fundamental way, not women, and transmen are in a fundamental way, not men and are not fully interchangable with them. That the trans community apparently demands that they be treated as fully interchangable and any refusal to do so as mentally aberrant is an unreasonable and untenable position.

This is not a point which either of us can budge on, so with all due respect, you can go suck a lemon. As Kahless once said, there are men with vulvas, and there are women with penises, but there are no transphobes with honor.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Except, apparently, there are a lot of gay people who disagree with that assertion and think their sexual orientation is based on the sex of their potential parrtner, not the gender identity.

Your statement is, at best, controversial.

Yes and not all trans people are gay nor do all gay people support trans rights. Trans men and women seek recognition as the sex their brain functions as. My general take on the subject is, "Treat them as the sex they identify as. Because it will cause immense suffering to them otherwise."

You mean gender?

[Mickey_Rat15]

BTW, have you noticed that this only ever goes one way? Transmen aren't complaining that they cannot have sex with men, transmen aren't complaining that they cannot use men's prisons.

My actual, real-life gay trans friend is annoyed because a lot of men get grossed out when they find out he's a vagina. He says this is a common problem.

The issue here is what one is defining the problem as. Is it that your friend is looking for a gay man who does not mind having a partner with a vagina, which presumably is a small subset of a relatively small subset of the population thereby narrowing your friend's choices considerably, or is the problem that gay men generally prefer sex partners who have penises?

Defining it as the latter implies there is something wrong with having a sexual preference.

This is why I don't understand the trans community. I am all for them to be what they want or need to be to make themselves feel comfortable in their own skin. I don't understand but I do accept.

The vanilla gay community I understand. A gay man likes men. A gay woman likes women. Got it. Love. Makes sense to me.

The trans community isn't actually that hard to understand. They just want to be recognized as themselves, rather than what other people decide they are. Trans men want people to stop telling them that they are women, trans women want people to stop telling them that they are men, and trans nonbinary people want others to recognize that they don't fit neatly into the Man or Woman box and treat them accordingly.

The reason I brought up my friend was because he flatly contradicts OP's "This only happens with trans women" assertion.

Except that transwomen are, in a fundamental way, not women, and transmen are in a fundamental way, not men and are not fully interchangable with them. That the trans community apparently demands that they be treated as fully interchangable and any refusal to do so as mentally aberrant is an unreasonable and untenable position.

This is not a point which either of us can budge on, so with all due respect, you can go suck a lemon. As Kahless once said, there are men with vulvas, and there are women with penises, but there are no transphobes with honor.

I see this is an article of faith for you, but I am not a communicant of the religion you subscribe to, so your insults are meaningless.