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hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:14 am
I wonder if this will be enough of a high-profile example to get the nightmare conservatorship system overhauled or disbanded? Or if everyone will just put everything that was brought to light about it out of their mind now?
Again, the conservatorship system is a GOOD THING. There are people out there with severe illnesses and mental problems who cannot look after themselves. What are you suggesting here? That we shouldn't step in to stop people who unable to look after themselves from losing everything they own? Because that isn't moral. And it certainly isn't right.
How do you see this system NOT being exploited and abused, exactly? Like, do you have a parent with dementia who is under a conservatorship? Why exactly do you think this is good?
The fact stands that the current system is very easy to get put into and nearly impossible to get out of. Do you want me to have power over your finances if I decide you're crazy enough?
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:14 am
I wonder if this will be enough of a high-profile example to get the nightmare conservatorship system overhauled or disbanded?
Dear Dionysus, I hope and pray so.
Interesting you bring up Dionysus, who among other things is the god of insanity. Which is exactly what your statement is. Or made when blotted on wine - that works too.
Do you actively try to insult people or do you think this kind of talk is reasonable and polite? Seriously, what result where you hoping from this comment? Did you think I would go "well, that's a good point, I must be wrong"? Or did you expect people to say "Haha, sick burn bro" and give you virtual hi-fives?
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:14 am
I wonder if this will be enough of a high-profile example to get the nightmare conservatorship system overhauled or disbanded? Or if everyone will just put everything that was brought to light about it out of their mind now?
Again, the conservatorship system is a GOOD THING. There are people out there with severe illnesses and mental problems who cannot look after themselves. What are you suggesting here? That we shouldn't step in to stop people who unable to look after themselves from losing everything they own? Because that isn't moral. And it certainly isn't right.
How do you see this system NOT being exploited and abused, exactly? Like, do you have a parent with dementia who is under a conservatorship? Why exactly do you think this is good?
The fact stands that the current system is very easy to get put into and nearly impossible to get out of. Do you want me to have power over your finances if I decide you're crazy enough?
It can be. But like anything it can be abused.
My parents were the conservators of my Mom's parents once they had obvious signs of dimentia. My parents, specifically my Mom took care of what limited finances they had left (they were in their mid 90's and outlived their savings), and contributed when they were short.
The other thing was talking to the nurses to make sure they ate. My grandparents tend to forget to eat. My grandmother dropped down to 92 lbs.
It's not that it can be abused, it's that it is ripe for abuse, and the case study that Britney Spears provides shows just how exploitable. I'm glad it worked out for your grandparents but just because your family members used it responsibly that doesn't make it any less laughably easy for evil people like Britney's father to exploit.
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
And as is the same with many of the legal issues surrounding sanity and self-determination, it's shockingly easy to lose your rights, and very hard to regain them. Reform has largely consisted in adding more requirements to things like involuntary commitments and conservatorships. Time was, it only took the signatures of two doctors to strip someone of their civil rights and have them committed. And it was abused in all sorts of obvious, and non-obvious, ways. For example, girls pregnant out-of-wedlock with rich families were sometimes legally committed, given abortions while anesthetized, then gaslighted - they'd be held in institutions until they agreed to abandon the 'delusions' of pregnancy they had, held hostage until everyone was convinced they were willing to repeat the lies in exchange for freedom.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
Frustration wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:17 pm
And as is the same with many of the legal issues surrounding sanity and self-determination, it's shockingly easy to lose your rights, and very hard to regain them. Reform has largely consisted in adding more requirements to things like involuntary commitments and conservatorships. Time was, it only took the signatures of two doctors to strip someone of their civil rights and have them committed. And it was abused in all sorts of obvious, and non-obvious, ways. For example, girls pregnant out-of-wedlock with rich families were sometimes legally committed, given abortions while anesthetized, then gaslighted - they'd be held in institutions until they agreed to abandon the 'delusions' of pregnancy they had, held hostage until everyone was convinced they were willing to repeat the lies in exchange for freedom.
Or their families had them lobotomized.
...for space is wide, and good friends are too few.
