Alternate Star Trek Aesops

[Thebestoftherest]

Star trek: Into darkness: You wasted your time and money.

[TGLS]

Another example, how about showing us how this situation came about? Why are there so few Congenitors? Surely any real species would have a 3/3/3 gender split, not a 4/4/1 as is implied.

They actually did answer that in a throw away line. At one point, it's mentioned that cogenitors don't actually pass on any genes. Thus, from a Darwinian perspective, cogenitors are a dead end for genes, and so producing as few cogenitors as possible is favored on an evolutionary timescale. On the other hand, it doesn't explain why cogenitors are still around to begin with.

As much as it would be ripping off The Handmaid's Tale, I would have had them be walking incubators. I would have also put this episode in season 3 and made Archer need to get something from these people.

[clearspira]

Another example, how about showing us how this situation came about? Why are there so few Congenitors? Surely any real species would have a 3/3/3 gender split, not a 4/4/1 as is implied.

They actually did answer that in a throw away line. At one point, it's mentioned that cogenitors don't actually pass on any genes. Thus, from a Darwinian perspective, cogenitors are a dead end for genes, and so producing as few cogenitors as possible is favored on an evolutionary timescale. On the other hand, it doesn't explain why cogenitors are still around to begin with.

As much as it would be ripping off The Handmaid's Tale, I would have had them be walking incubators. I would have also put this episode in season 3 and made Archer need to get something from these people.

Its amazing that such a dead end of a species ever got off the ground tbh. How did this species reproduce back in the days when ''the shoe'' was the height of technology? You lose more than a couple but less than a few of your Congenitors and that is a whole village dead. Wars back in the day must have been like capture the flag: win the war by capturing the Congenitor.

In terms of how the whole reproductive system worked, Iain M Banks had a three sex race in his book ''The Player of Games.'' In it, the Azadian men have the penis and testicles, the women have the womb and the third intermediate sex has the ovaries. It just makes so much more sense than what we have here.

[TGLS]

Its amazing that such a dead end of a species ever got off the ground tbh. How did this species reproduce back in the days when ''the shoe'' was the height of technology? You lose more than a couple but less than a few of your Congenitors and that is a whole village dead. Wars back in the day must have been like capture the flag: win the war by capturing the Congenitor.

Based on the experiences of modern hunter-gatherer societies, who typically have around 500 members, and based on theoretical mathematical models of group process, Paleolithic bands of people were likely around twenty-five members each, and typically about twenty bands constituted a tribe.

Cogenitors made up only three percent of the Vissian population and their services for reproduction were consequently in high demand.

So assuming there's no pressures that developed in the thousands of years since the Vissian paleolithic (i.e. sex-selective abortion), there'd be a little over a dozen Cogenitors per tribe, which seems like a practical amount, especially when there's no genetics or relationships to foster a Westermark effect.

[McAvoy]

Cogenitors you would think of as a protected sex if you need them but 3% of the population is them. I could easily see a quasi religion due to them.

Never made sense to me that they are the second class citizens.

Actually would make for a different episode if it was the other way around. That they are the ones in power.

[clearspira]

Y'know, the more I think about this, the more I am getting quite annoyed at the sheer wasted potential of this species. Not only was there a chance to do something interesting with sexism here, but there was also a chance to repair the god-awful TNG: ''The Outcast.'' Because here you genuinely do have a species that is completely outside of our gender binary. The congenitors are not male, female, or non-binary. They should have a unique gender of way of doing things completely unique to themselves forged over thousands of years. What would that be like? How would that have influenced the other genders? What would patriarchy or matriarchy look like with this outsider influence?

Grr. And instead we just got a repeat of the mistakes of the J'Naii.

I'm reminded of what Chuck said about the titular rogue planet from ENT ''Rogue Planet'' about how this is an opportunity to create an environment completely alien to anything you can imagine... the one downside being that it is clearly beyond anything that the Enterprise writers can imagine as well.
This is how I feel about this species. Brannon Braga has proven himself not fit to lick the boots of Ursula Le Guinn or Iain M Banks.

[Frustration]

Fun fact about Cogenitors: In the ALIEN NATION series, the Tenctonese have almost an identical biology in that only about 1 in a hundred of their race are born a different kind of male that is required to also inseminate their females. Rather than treat them as slaves, they are a priestly caste honored for their activities or actually highly paid professionals.

Psychologically, that's less plausible than enslavement. I think the key here is that ALL of the Tenctonese were already enslaved, and their enslavers would have considered that third sex to be quite important and thus protected and even pampered them. If the Tenctonese had been free people with a free society, they would probably have enslaved and repressed that third gender precisely because they are so essential. It's the equivalent of not legally permitting social services employees to strike, only several orders of magnitude more intense.

[McAvoy]

Fun fact about Cogenitors: In the ALIEN NATION series, the Tenctonese have almost an identical biology in that only about 1 in a hundred of their race are born a different kind of male that is required to also inseminate their females. Rather than treat them as slaves, they are a priestly caste honored for their activities or actually highly paid professionals.

Psychologically, that's less plausible than enslavement. I think the key here is that ALL of the Tenctonese were already enslaved, and their enslavers would have considered that third sex to be quite important and thus protected and even pampered them. If the Tenctonese had been free people with a free society, they would probably have enslaved and repressed that third gender precisely because they are so essential. It's the equivalent of not legally permitting social services employees to strike, only several orders of magnitude more intense.

I dont. I can easily see this third gender or alternate male as being regarded as something precious. Something to protect.

And at the same time I could see this third gender calling the shots. At least in procreation. Think about it, you need them to make a kid. They can easily say 'Nope, I don't approve your match'. Or go on strike and no one have kids.

You definitely wouldn't have them do anything that puts them in danger, so no wars, no dangerous occupations. They would be protected. I can see them basically put into a monk like setting.

[clearspira]

Fun fact about Cogenitors: In the ALIEN NATION series, the Tenctonese have almost an identical biology in that only about 1 in a hundred of their race are born a different kind of male that is required to also inseminate their females. Rather than treat them as slaves, they are a priestly caste honored for their activities or actually highly paid professionals.

Psychologically, that's less plausible than enslavement. I think the key here is that ALL of the Tenctonese were already enslaved, and their enslavers would have considered that third sex to be quite important and thus protected and even pampered them. If the Tenctonese had been free people with a free society, they would probably have enslaved and repressed that third gender precisely because they are so essential. It's the equivalent of not legally permitting social services employees to strike, only several orders of magnitude more intense.

I dont. I can easily see this third gender or alternate male as being regarded as something precious. Something to protect.

And at the same time I could see this third gender calling the shots. At least in procreation. Think about it, you need them to make a kid. They can easily say 'Nope, I don't approve your match'. Or go on strike and no one have kids.

You definitely wouldn't have them do anything that puts them in danger, so no wars, no dangerous occupations. They would be protected. I can see them basically put into a monk like setting.

Basically house arrest. No contact sports, home schooling, a curfew. Its not that they are treated like property as such, they are being treated like one would treat anything else they perceived to be delicate. Its not unlike how many cultures have treated women over the years.

In a ''liberal'' system then definitely the Congenitors would be the ''choosers'' in a relationship. They would probably also be polygamous. Each Congenitor would have multiple husbands and wives.
I do think though that a ''reproduction strike'' would never work. Ever watched the film ''Children of Men?'' You would see morals and ethics break down real quick if no babies are being born. That is when you would see Gilead come about.

[hammerofglass]

I think a lot of it depends on evolutionary history. If they're a species of pack hunters where the default unit of organization is "whatever the strongest and most aggressive member can hold together" with a hierarchy and social structure based on that (which most fictional species created by humans are for obvious reasons) then yeah we'd expect a purely reproductive specialist to be powerless. But a species evolved from solitary, herd, or colonial animals would be quite different.