Since this episode didn't have a thread, I decided to make one after listening to the episode's Blu-Ray commentary. Ron Moore and Naren Shankar both give a lot of interesting info on the writing of this episode and their fights with Michael Piller on the ending. They wanted Wesley to stick with his friends while Piller wanted him to tell the truth which became the filmed ending. Moore even states that Piller being a parent was why he was so adamant about this ending.
About three quarters of the way into the episode, Moore and Shankar finally address a big elephant in the room which was Nick Locarno becoming Tom Paris on Voyager. Moore asks why didn't Robert McNeill play Locarno on the series and Shankar, with a big laugh, points out that they would have to be paid royalties. So it's pretty clear they agree with Chuck and most Star Trek fans aware of the situation. I would just like to note that Moore and Shankar have no grudges over the matter but Moore does wish Voyager had used Locarno if they had somehow come to an agreement with producers.
Finally, Ron Moore also had a funny Rick Berman story. Since he didn't watch the dailies, Berman saw the real doorknob on Wesley's door when the episode was being edited (meaning the episode was done filming). And Berman FREAKED OUT because he couldn't tell them to go back and change the door. So he had the editor add an electronic beep when Wesley opens the door to Picard and Beverly.
TNG: The First Duty
TNG: The First Duty
Last edited by Shuboy07 on Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: TNG: The First Duty
I'm glad Piller won out on this one, then. I mean, I'm not the biggest Wesley fan, but I want him to do the right thing. And after engaging in stupid behavior, pressuring someone to go forward when he might not be up to it, and then lying to cover your ass after you get that person KILLED is definitely the wrong thing. Sure, say what you will about protecting your friends, but the fact is that you already failed to protect your friend. I get that some people say it's stupid to accept punishment when you might get off without any, but if you want to avoid punishment, maybe you shouldn't be engaged in illegal, life-risking behavior.Shuboy07 wrote:Since this episode didn't have a thread, I decided to make one after listening to the episode's Blu-Ray commentary. Ron Moore and Naren Shankar both give a lot of interesting info on the writing of this episode and their fights with Michael Piller on the ending. They wanted Wesley to stick with his friends while Piller wanted him to tell the truth which became the filmed ending. Moore even states that Piller being a parent was why he was so adamant about this ending.
Re: TNG: The First Duty
Moore and Shankar also noted that they came up with a third option that might have worked better. Just when Wesley starts standing up, Locarno jumps up and tells the truth. Now the final episode did end with Locarno taking the blame for everybody but that occurs off camera. However Piller noted that this made Locarno the sort of hero of the episode and stuck with the Wesley Tells the Truth ending. The interesting thing is if they had gone with this ending, I think this more noble version of Locarno would have easily transitioned to Voyager (since Robert McNeill's interpretation is that Locarno was irredeemable).bronnt wrote: I'm glad Piller won out on this one, then. I mean, I'm not the biggest Wesley fan, but I want him to do the right thing. And after engaging in stupid behavior, pressuring someone to go forward when he might not be up to it, and then lying to cover your ass after you get that person KILLED is definitely the wrong thing. Sure, say what you will about protecting your friends, but the fact is that you already failed to protect your friend. I get that some people say it's stupid to accept punishment when you might get off without any, but if you want to avoid punishment, maybe you shouldn't be engaged in illegal, life-risking behavior.
And one more fun fact. Since Moore and Shankar were college classmates at Cornell, a lot of the names in this episode came from mutual friends. The Kolvoord in Kolvoord Starburst was a good friend of Shankar who became a professor (a quick Google search found me a Dr. Bob Kolvoord who did attend Cornell). Apparently to this day, his students will come up to him and mention this episode.
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Re: TNG: The First Duty
Yes, I think Wesley sticking with his friends is a terrible idea. There's "Wesley fucks up" moments and plenty of things to be said about flawed heroes but this is a cover-up of manslaughter and it was his friend who died. At college graduation, if my attempt to do a fireworks display for a friend gets another killed then I'm damned well going to tell the truth.
I'm actually kind of disturbed that they think, "Don't rat on your friends" is a good moral given all that's been going on in Hollywood.
I also basically headcanon Lorcano to being Tom Paris in my head anyway and vice versa. There's some things which just don't quite work out on screen I feel the need to correct like "Dear Doctor."
I'm actually kind of disturbed that they think, "Don't rat on your friends" is a good moral given all that's been going on in Hollywood.
I also basically headcanon Lorcano to being Tom Paris in my head anyway and vice versa. There's some things which just don't quite work out on screen I feel the need to correct like "Dear Doctor."
Re: TNG: The First Duty
One more thing. Since the Vulcan officer was already the Annoying Character in Chuck's review, I just wanted to mention that Moore and Shankar also make fun of him on their commentary. Granted I think everybody who saw this episode noticed this actor and his performance.
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Re: TNG: The First Duty
Did they intend to celebrate ''don't rat'' culture?CharlesPhipps wrote:Yes, I think Wesley sticking with his friends is a terrible idea. There's "Wesley fucks up" moments and plenty of things to be said about flawed heroes but this is a cover-up of manslaughter and it was his friend who died. At college graduation, if my attempt to do a fireworks display for a friend gets another killed then I'm damned well going to tell the truth.
I'm actually kind of disturbed that they think, "Don't rat on your friends" is a good moral given all that's been going on in Hollywood.
I also basically headcanon Lorcano to being Tom Paris in my head anyway and vice versa. There's some things which just don't quite work out on screen I feel the need to correct like "Dear Doctor."
Re: TNG: The First Duty
There's nothing wrong, per se, with someone else being the "hero" in the episode. I do think it's wrong if you frame the story in a way that makes Locarno a hero when he's the main reason for the accident. He was basically trying to stroke his own ego and that got a guy killed, and he should have been the one to immediately confess and accept complete responsibility. Instead it required Wesley to be his conscience, even though he was trying to guilt-trip Wesley into lying.Shuboy07 wrote:Moore and Shankar also noted that they came up with a third option that might have worked better. Just when Wesley starts standing up, Locarno jumps up and tells the truth. Now the final episode did end with Locarno taking the blame for everybody but that occurs off camera. However Piller noted that this made Locarno the sort of hero of the episode and stuck with the Wesley Tells the Truth ending. The interesting thing is if they had gone with this ending, I think this more noble version of Locarno would have easily transitioned to Voyager (since Robert McNeill's interpretation is that Locarno was irredeemable).
When your first thought after your friend dies is "Oh crap, how's this going to affect ME? I'd better protect myself from the consequences," you're just a prick.
In a sense. In Moore's version, from what I read, they were going to expel the whole squad unless someone told them whose idea it was (and it was always Locarno's). According to Moore, Wesley's refusal to be a tattletale was courageous since he'd have been willing to accept explusion to protect his friend. Maybe it would make sense if framed well, but it certainly does seem to make a value judgment on ratting people out, doesn't it?Agent Vinod wrote:Did they intend to celebrate ''don't rat'' culture?
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Re: TNG: The First Duty
Can't judge without knowing what they wanted to do with them after expulsion...bronnt wrote:Shuboy07 wrote:In a sense. In Moore's version, from what I read, they were going to expel the whole squad unless someone told them whose idea it was (and it was always Locarno's). According to Moore, Wesley's refusal to be a tattletale was courageous since he'd have been willing to accept explusion to protect his friend. Maybe it would make sense if framed well, but it certainly does seem to make a value judgment on ratting people out, doesn't it?Agent Vinod wrote:Did they intend to celebrate ''don't rat'' culture?
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Re: TNG: The First Duty
I always thought the truly 'courageous' decision would have been for Wesley to:
1. Tell the truth
2. Insist that he receive the same punishment as the other cadets.
2a. Resigned his commission once Locarno got expelled (since, really, he's in no position to demand anything, and he has no control over the proceedings in any event).
This corrects the fundamental problems I had with the ending, which was that (1) by letting him off with a softer penalty for the same crime as a reward for breaking, it raises the question of how much was guilt and how much was self-interest, and (2) the other cadets didn't have the advantage Wesley did of Picard interceding on his behalf in exchange for the testimony against the others.
Yes, it takes courage to tell the truth... but it also worked out to his benefit, too, didn't it? If I remember correctly, Picard also said that he would have unofficially poisoned Wesley's Starfleet career if he graduated without turning on his friends.
1. Tell the truth
2. Insist that he receive the same punishment as the other cadets.
2a. Resigned his commission once Locarno got expelled (since, really, he's in no position to demand anything, and he has no control over the proceedings in any event).
This corrects the fundamental problems I had with the ending, which was that (1) by letting him off with a softer penalty for the same crime as a reward for breaking, it raises the question of how much was guilt and how much was self-interest, and (2) the other cadets didn't have the advantage Wesley did of Picard interceding on his behalf in exchange for the testimony against the others.
Yes, it takes courage to tell the truth... but it also worked out to his benefit, too, didn't it? If I remember correctly, Picard also said that he would have unofficially poisoned Wesley's Starfleet career if he graduated without turning on his friends.
Re: TNG: The First Duty
He wasn't let off with a softer penalty. The other two pilots got the same punishment as Wesley, and only Locarno was expelled-largely because Locarno went forward to take full credit. But then, from what we're given to understand, Locarno actually WAS the primary person at fault who was pushing them to try a dangerous maneuver even though one of the pilots might not have been up to it, so this means Locarno was finally doing what he always should have done.Independent George wrote:Yes, it takes courage to tell the truth... but it also worked out to his benefit, too, didn't it? If I remember correctly, Picard also said that he would have unofficially poisoned Wesley's Starfleet career if he graduated without turning on his friends.
Moore's version had Picard making an impassioned speech to Wesley where he implored Wesley to save his own career, rather than the version where he's berating Wes to do the right thing. Moore said he didn't want Wes to look like a coward in that version where he rats the others out to save his own ass. Honestly, though, even if it looks like self-interest, I still think it's the thing Wesley should have done, even if it seems like betraying his friends: his friends were literally covering up a criminal action in which a man DIED. Sure, maybe you don't tell on someone if they smuggled some booze onto campus or saw them breaking curfew-essentially victimless offenses. But if you did something that was both wrong and resulted in actual death, you need to face the consequences.