clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:57 am
I think the miniskirt was less forgivable in the Abrams reboot. They changed almost everything about the aesthetic of TOS but not pants?
Speaking of sex/gender in Trek, am I the only one that thinks the "skirt for men" from TNG season 1 has actually aged quite well no matter how silly it may have been at the time? What if they were non-binary or just live in a society that doesn't care that men wear skirts? Surprised DISCO never brought that back tbh.
To be fair, there's also quite a few "Crystal spires and togas" civilizations in the Federation. Males from such worlds probably aren't all-in on pants, and have a very different idea of fashion. Starfleet, being as mildly military as it is, just sort of rolls with it.
Granted, I bet in a civilization the size of the Federation, there's also probably a fair few non-binary people, assuming that such folks compose < 5% of the population, similar to modern demographics. (Of course, assumptions are dangerous because they don't hold up, but it's also true this is fiction, and is designed to be an expanded proxy of our real world, so...not quite so dangerous after all!)
Either way, skant uniforms aren't terrible, and solve more problems than they create.
It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''
I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?
clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:39 pm
It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''
I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?
Since he says "species" I'd assume it's just a rather garbled attempt at referring to species with different sexual characteristics to humans - life on other planets may work in a different way.
Maybe it's not our usage of "transgender", but using the "beyond" meaning of the prefix "trans"? They're beyond human concepts of gender? IDK, the writers probably just heard the word somewhere and didn't care enough to look up what it meant.
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clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:39 pm
It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''
I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?
Since he says "species" I'd assume it's just a rather garbled attempt at referring to species with different sexual characteristics to humans - life on other planets may work in a different way.
I suppose thinking about it, a race similar to the Culture of Iain M Banks series of the same name could, under a broad definition, be classed as ''transgender'' because they can change their sex and gender at will.
I think Ursula L Guinn had her sexless aliens in The Left Hand of Darkness call humans ''bisexual'' because we are of two sexes.
I'm reminded of a class in feminism where the teacher stated generally there was a nice medium between fashion designed to be beautiful and attractive versus things designed solely to make people look like sex.
And that male gaze tends to put things to one extreme (wear something that turns me on!) or the other (cover yourself, harlot!)
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:13 pm
I'm reminded of a class in feminism where the teacher stated generally there was a nice medium between fashion designed to be beautiful and attractive versus things designed solely to make people look like sex.
And that male gaze tends to put things to one extreme (wear something that turns me on!) or the other (cover yourself, harlot!)
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:13 pm
I'm reminded of a class in feminism where the teacher stated generally there was a nice medium between fashion designed to be beautiful and attractive versus things designed solely to make people look like sex.
And that male gaze tends to put things to one extreme (wear something that turns me on!) or the other (cover yourself, harlot!)
Leia's braless white dress vs her bronze bikini.
Feeling slightly scatterbrained so bear with me.
First, I know Carrie Fisher was not wearing a bra in Star Wars. But I can't say I ever noticed one way or another.
Next, I never really considered a 'wear something sexy' for her in any outfit till they put her in the bronze bikini.
Last, can you answer why that is like a harlot. Yet an actual bikini that may cover far less does not automatically bring that to mind?
"I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking 'Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!'" When I am writing in this font, I am writing in my moderator voice.
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clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:39 pm
It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''
I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?
Since he says "species" I'd assume it's just a rather garbled attempt at referring to species with different sexual characteristics to humans - life on other planets may work in a different way.
I suppose thinking about it, a race similar to the Culture of Iain M Banks series of the same name could, under a broad definition, be classed as ''transgender'' because they can change their sex and gender at will.
I think Ursula L Guinn had her sexless aliens in The Left Hand of Darkness call humans ''bisexual'' because we are of two sexes.
For the record: our terms for those now are "gender-fluid", "nonbinary", and/or "intersex".
