Sex in Star Trek (A Jessie Gender Video Series)

[Frustration]

Last, can you answer why that is like a harlot. Yet an actual bikini that may cover far less does not automatically bring that to mind?

Its tastelessness. It revealed nearly everything, but what it concealed it made a point of drawing attention to. Some bikinis are perfectly tasteful. Even thongs can be, although they're often quite slutty.

[Durandal_1707]

It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''

I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?

Before that, Odo said "Ladies, gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures" in "If Wishes Were Horses."

(Why do I remember silly dialogue verbatim from terrible early DS9 episodes? I don't know!)

[clearspira]

It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''

I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?

Since he says "species" I'd assume it's just a rather garbled attempt at referring to species with different sexual characteristics to humans - life on other planets may work in a different way.

I suppose thinking about it, a race similar to the Culture of Iain M Banks series of the same name could, under a broad definition, be classed as ''transgender'' because they can change their sex and gender at will.

I think Ursula L Guinn had her sexless aliens in The Left Hand of Darkness call humans ''bisexual'' because we are of two sexes.

For the record: our terms for those now are "gender-fluid", "nonbinary", and/or "intersex".

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Its the same for the Culture. The Player of Games makes a big point of noting that the Culture language has no pronouns and the only reason why the protagonist refers to himself as ''he'' is for our benefit. As far as ''he'' is concerned, ''he'' is also a ''she'' an ''it'' a ''they'' and a ''xe''.

TL;DR - I actually find it MORE plausible that the LHOD aliens would use the term ''bisexual'' to refer to a two sex species. It sounds wrong - and that is what makes it right. They are confused by our very existence.

[clearspira]

It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''

I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?

Before that, Odo said "Ladies, gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures" in "If Wishes Were Horses."

(Why do I remember silly dialogue verbatim from terrible early DS9 episodes? I don't know!)

That is a lot better. Nemesis has many problems and that line is one of them.

[ProfessorDetective]

It is often forgotten that Data makes a wedding toast in Nemesis that goes ''ladies, gentlemen and invited transgendered species.''

I like to think given the overall poor writing of this film that they meant non-binary and just didn't think of the word. Otherwise what is a ''transgendered species''?

Since he says "species" I'd assume it's just a rather garbled attempt at referring to species with different sexual characteristics to humans - life on other planets may work in a different way.

I suppose thinking about it, a race similar to the Culture of Iain M Banks series of the same name could, under a broad definition, be classed as ''transgender'' because they can change their sex and gender at will.

I think Ursula L Guinn had her sexless aliens in The Left Hand of Darkness call humans ''bisexual'' because we are of two sexes.

For the record: our terms for those now are "gender-fluid", "nonbinary", and/or "intersex".

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Its the same for the Culture. The Player of Games makes a big point of noting that the Culture language has no pronouns and the only reason why the protagonist refers to himself as ''he'' is for our benefit. As far as ''he'' is concerned, ''he'' is also a ''she'' an ''it'' a ''they'' and a ''xe''.

TL;DR - I actually find it MORE plausible that the LHOD aliens would use the term ''bisexual'' to refer to a two sex species. It sounds wrong - and that is what makes it right. They are confused by our very existence.

Okay, their the HUMAN/ENGLISH terms, now.

And with what terms a truly genderless race would use: that feels like a situation where you'd have them adopting loan words, probably from the first gendered species they encounter. Very common in the tech world, ask a french computer nerd.

[Riedquat]

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Was "silly" her word? Because I find that a bit smug to be honest. If those aliens had different sexes on their planet (in different species), or experience with encountering them, they'd either be arrogant or just view it as another difference. Doubtless some humans would find some of their behaviour silly in return.

[clearspira]

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Was "silly" her word? Because I find that a bit smug to be honest. If those aliens had different sexes on their planet (in different species), or experience with encountering them, they'd either be arrogant or just view it as another difference. Doubtless some humans would find some of their behaviour silly in return.

She doesn't use ''silly'' as such. But I have reached for my copy of Left Hand of Darkness off the shelf and I thought I would give you a segment of the foreword that she wrote.

''I decided that my wintery world would be unique in one aspect: it would be a world that had never had a war. The Gethenians would have the full complement of human aggressiveness. They'd have feuds, forays, squabbles, murders, all that - but they would not organise their aggression. They would have no armies and no wars.
''My mind, trying to imagine such a world without war, arrived at a world without men - without men as such - without men who always had to be men. So, could they sometimes be women? And vice versa?''

The implication here is pretty blatant. The Getheians (otherwise humanlike in thought and feeling) brought about world peace of a sort by not having gender. If that is the case, I kind of think that they would think we are silly for such divisions in our society.

[Riedquat]

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Was "silly" her word? Because I find that a bit smug to be honest. If those aliens had different sexes on their planet (in different species), or experience with encountering them, they'd either be arrogant or just view it as another difference. Doubtless some humans would find some of their behaviour silly in return.

She doesn't use ''silly'' as such. But I have reached for my copy of Left Hand of Darkness off the shelf and I thought I would give you a segment of the foreword that she wrote.

''I decided that my wintery world would be unique in one aspect: it would be a world that had never had a war. The Gethenians would have the full complement of human aggressiveness. They'd have feuds, forays, squabbles, murders, all that - but they would not organise their aggression. They would have no armies and no wars.
''My mind, trying to imagine such a world without war, arrived at a world without men - without men as such - without men who always had to be men. So, could they sometimes be women? And vice versa?''

The implication here is pretty blatant. The Getheians (otherwise humanlike in thought and feeling) brought about world peace of a sort by not having gender. If that is the case, I kind of think that they would think we are silly for such divisions in our society.

I find that a pretty implausible conclusion based on rather simplistic stereotypical views of men and women, implying as it does "wars are caused by men and only men." Easy to create a fictional species or society that doesn't behave in a way we don't like and then use that to bash things we don't like, rather harder to make it sound convincing and not just a projection of the author's preconceived notions.

From the sound of it exactly the same "conclusions" could be used to say that on their world there are no heaps of unwashed clothes and organised sport is far less popular than embroidery, and I hope we'd cringe at that sort of conclusion that says "if that's what the world is like it clearly can't have men in it."

[hammerofglass]

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Was "silly" her word? Because I find that a bit smug to be honest. If those aliens had different sexes on their planet (in different species), or experience with encountering them, they'd either be arrogant or just view it as another difference. Doubtless some humans would find some of their behaviour silly in return.

She doesn't use ''silly'' as such. But I have reached for my copy of Left Hand of Darkness off the shelf and I thought I would give you a segment of the foreword that she wrote.

''I decided that my wintery world would be unique in one aspect: it would be a world that had never had a war. The Gethenians would have the full complement of human aggressiveness. They'd have feuds, forays, squabbles, murders, all that - but they would not organise their aggression. They would have no armies and no wars.
''My mind, trying to imagine such a world without war, arrived at a world without men - without men as such - without men who always had to be men. So, could they sometimes be women? And vice versa?''

The implication here is pretty blatant. The Getheians (otherwise humanlike in thought and feeling) brought about world peace of a sort by not having gender. If that is the case, I kind of think that they would think we are silly for such divisions in our society.

They're still just as violent as humans but without men they're just too disorganized to fight wars? I don't think "too organized" is a negative stereotype of men I've encountered before.

[clearspira]

Are they though? The whole point of the aliens in Left Hand of Darkness is that the very concept of gender is one that never developed on their world. Guinn wanted to study what would happen if people from our world; so driven by sex, gender, and all of the sexism and homophobia that goes along with that met people who found all of those things confusing and silly. All of the terms we use today are based on a world of gender and therefore are terms designed to make sense of a world based on gender.

Was "silly" her word? Because I find that a bit smug to be honest. If those aliens had different sexes on their planet (in different species), or experience with encountering them, they'd either be arrogant or just view it as another difference. Doubtless some humans would find some of their behaviour silly in return.

She doesn't use ''silly'' as such. But I have reached for my copy of Left Hand of Darkness off the shelf and I thought I would give you a segment of the foreword that she wrote.

''I decided that my wintery world would be unique in one aspect: it would be a world that had never had a war. The Gethenians would have the full complement of human aggressiveness. They'd have feuds, forays, squabbles, murders, all that - but they would not organise their aggression. They would have no armies and no wars.
''My mind, trying to imagine such a world without war, arrived at a world without men - without men as such - without men who always had to be men. So, could they sometimes be women? And vice versa?''

The implication here is pretty blatant. The Getheians (otherwise humanlike in thought and feeling) brought about world peace of a sort by not having gender. If that is the case, I kind of think that they would think we are silly for such divisions in our society.

They're still just as violent as humans but without men they're just too disorganized to fight wars? I don't think "too organized" is a negative stereotype of men I've encountered before.

She has some ''interesting'' views i'll give her that. Doesn't paint women in a good light either. ''We've attained world peace because women lack the ability to run an army.''