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Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:04 pm
I do wonder if body cams would help.
Has anyone here looked up any stats on body cams? I haven't. Just curious if anyone done any leg work on it.
I don't know about stats. But while the brunt of the George Floyd stuff went on another man was killed with the same technique even he did not resist at all. Miraculously all the officers there the body cams all malfunctioned at the same time and got nothing at all.
While police should have some chance to disable the body cams. IE no one needs to see footage of the inside of the locker room or a police officer going to the toilet. I think there should be automatic investigations if an officer does their duty and the cams are off. One officer could be an accident or malfunction. An entire response? That sounds of conspiracy.
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:04 pm
I do wonder if body cams would help.
Has anyone here looked up any stats on body cams? I haven't. Just curious if anyone done any leg work on it.
They're extremely common here in the UK and they work well. But then, our police are better than yours. I don't mean that in a ''look at how amazing we are'' kind of way, just a statement.
Our cops do not carry guns. They carry batons and sometimes tasers. This means that our cops actually have to defuse a situation peacefully instead of just pointing a Glock at the target lest they get an ass-kicking. This is very god motivation for being civil with the public. And each and every time they do strike a member of the public? Suspension with pay pending a full investigation to see if such action was warranted. No ifs, no buts.
The members of our police that are allowed to carry firearms are a specially trained unit that is called in when ''carrying a stick'' isn't enough. And the only way to become an Authorised Firearms Officer to to first have years worth of on the job experience then to attend a six week course (with two week refreshers every year). During a situation where he has to discharge his firearm? Suspension with pay pending a full investigation to see if such action was warranted. No ifs, no buts.
In the US? About 40 hours of training then you are good to go.
Do you want to join a police pursuit? Fine. That's years of on the job experience, an extensive course where you can prove you are an expert behind the wheel, a 30 mile training pursuit exam, and at minimum 680 hours of driving experience behind the wheel of a police car.
In the US? Again, about 40 hours of driving training on average. A bit more if you are joining highway patrol.
The problem isn't the police. The problem is that your police are a bunch of poorly trained cowboys with minimal accountability operating military grade hardware.
So I do a quick check and the entire UK is about the size of Oregon. Not our smallest state by a stretch but no where near the largest. Let alone the whole country. We also have 40 times the population according to a fast Google search. You spend $7650 dollars to train one officer versus $5000 for academy training in the US.
You are going to ask my point. My point is when I try and draw a comparison I get lines that don't match evenly. We as a country are way bigger both in size and population. You spend half again as much on your police as we do. But over a much longer time. My comparisons are not giving me a clear superiority on any of these. I hate to use this analogy, but this feels like comparing an apple and an orange. "Uhm they grow on trees and are both fruits?"
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:04 pm
I do wonder if body cams would help.
Has anyone here looked up any stats on body cams? I haven't. Just curious if anyone done any leg work on it.
I don't know about stats. But while the brunt of the George Floyd stuff went on another man was killed with the same technique even he did not resist at all. Miraculously all the officers there the body cams all malfunctioned at the same time and got nothing at all.
While police should have some chance to disable the body cams. IE no one needs to see footage of the inside of the locker room or a police officer going to the toilet. I think there should be automatic investigations if an officer does their duty and the cams are off. One officer could be an accident or malfunction. An entire response? That sounds of conspiracy.
I am assuming they turn them off for privacy while using the bathroom.
Come to think of it, it would be for the privacy of the male cop than for the female. Thinking about the mechanics of for example taking a piss, that camera wouldn't see anything for a female but that camera could pick up the male's penis.
That and no one wants to hear the runny shits.
I'd imagine the cops just mention they are using the bathroom and turn it off.
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:04 pm
I do wonder if body cams would help.
Has anyone here looked up any stats on body cams? I haven't. Just curious if anyone done any leg work on it.
They're extremely common here in the UK and they work well. But then, our police are better than yours. I don't mean that in a ''look at how amazing we are'' kind of way, just a statement.
Our cops do not carry guns. They carry batons and sometimes tasers. This means that our cops actually have to defuse a situation peacefully instead of just pointing a Glock at the target lest they get an ass-kicking. This is very god motivation for being civil with the public. And each and every time they do strike a member of the public? Suspension with pay pending a full investigation to see if such action was warranted. No ifs, no buts.
The members of our police that are allowed to carry firearms are a specially trained unit that is called in when ''carrying a stick'' isn't enough. And the only way to become an Authorised Firearms Officer to to first have years worth of on the job experience then to attend a six week course (with two week refreshers every year). During a situation where he has to discharge his firearm? Suspension with pay pending a full investigation to see if such action was warranted. No ifs, no buts.
In the US? About 40 hours of training then you are good to go.
Do you want to join a police pursuit? Fine. That's years of on the job experience, an extensive course where you can prove you are an expert behind the wheel, a 30 mile training pursuit exam, and at minimum 680 hours of driving experience behind the wheel of a police car.
In the US? Again, about 40 hours of driving training on average. A bit more if you are joining highway patrol.
The problem isn't the police. The problem is that your police are a bunch of poorly trained cowboys with minimal accountability operating military grade hardware.
So I do a quick check and the entire UK is about the size of Oregon. Not our smallest state by a stretch but no where near the largest. Let alone the whole country. We also have 40 times the population according to a fast Google search. You spend $7650 dollars to train one officer versus $5000 for academy training in the US.
You are going to ask my point. My point is when I try and draw a comparison I get lines that don't match evenly. We as a country are way bigger both in size and population. You spend half again as much on your police as we do. But over a much longer time. My comparisons are not giving me a clear superiority on any of these. I hate to use this analogy, but this feels like comparing an apple and an orange. "Uhm they grow on trees and are both fruits?"
The US also has literally ten times the GDP of the UK.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
And the US has about 180-400 times as many police departments than the UK.
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jfc the US government as structured has no directive control over city/county police forces in America. Comparing the UK or Japan to the US is essentially no different than Idaho calling itself a country and pointing its finger at everyone else over its low crime rates.
Saying "well it's different" sounds too much like refusing to learn from anywhere else (both mistakes and benefits). Some things just won't translate. Others will. Not that I like the idea of bodycams, even if a part of them is to keep the police in line rather than the public. Another thing the UK has done differently is a disturbing obsession with the surveillance state.
Well, I'm willing admit that the United States is poorly structured to remodel the police en masse. Before the 19th amendment, states could decide for themselves women could vote or not (well, except when the Supreme Court quashed those laws). Before the 24th, states could deny people the right to vote unless they paid a poll tax. This is what happens when your constitution is written by people who fear their new government will be as bad as a distant irresponsible parliament and by slavers who fear the non-slavers are going to take away all the slaves.
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TGLS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:04 pm
Well, I'm willing admit that the United States is poorly structured to remodel the police en masse. Before the 19th amendment, states could decide for themselves women could vote or not (well, except when the Supreme Court quashed those laws). Before the 24th, states could deny people the right to vote unless they paid a poll tax. This is what happens when your constitution is written by people who fear their new government will be as bad as a distant irresponsible parliament and by slavers who fear the non-slavers are going to take away all the slaves.
Yeah and it's not unlike our nationalized healthcare system specifically really as far as I've been thinking.
Riedquat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:40 pm
Saying "well it's different" sounds too much like refusing to learn from anywhere else (both mistakes and benefits). Some things just won't translate. Others will.
It's not a realistic comparison lest we go through the national debate discourse that we do ala "defund the police." It's very possible to channel it as an issue imo, but I just kinda don't doubt that the state governments would be able to have some sort of cohesion on this. As far as that specifically though, I'd imagine that they stress their networking between each other and the federal government enough, I'm just surprised that it's not a consideration of how things work in America in favor of paying attention to Congress all the time.
