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Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm
Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
Social Democracy
UBI Free Trade
Capitalism with taxes.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pm
Post-Scarcity
Capitalism with attention economics or communism.
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Madner Kami wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:59 pm
I sense a lack of imagination.
Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
Neo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.
Anarchy.
Neo-fuedalism and ultranationaism are both capitalist in nature. Anarchy is the end goal of communism, stalinism is at least socialist.
I dunno; Feudalism turns property owners into little states. Ultranationalism could have capitalist features, but that's of little comfort to persecuted minority capitalists.
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Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm
Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
Social Democracy
UBI Free Trade
Capitalism with taxes.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pm
Post-Scarcity
Capitalism with attention economics or communism.
I mean, if you ignore what capitalism is, then yes. Capitalism is a system based around the accumulation of wealth as a social end itself.
Pre-17th century it didn't exist because "trade" and "money" does not a capitalist society make.
If the modern United States is a capitalist society, then social democracy (like the nordic model) or some hypothetical state with UBI is also capitalist. Heck, a state with strong unions might be more capitalist than the United States.
On post-scarcity capitalism: just because the prices of goods collapse away to nearly nothing, it doesn't mean that it's impossible to accumulate wealth. What "wealth" is just stops being yachts & jewelry, and starts being more focused on real estate & artistic patronage.
"I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking 'Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!'" When I am writing in this font, I am writing in my moderator voice.
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Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm
Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
Social Democracy
UBI Free Trade
Capitalism with taxes.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pm
Post-Scarcity
Capitalism with attention economics or communism.
I mean, if you ignore what capitalism is, then yes. Capitalism is a system based around the accumulation of wealth as a social end itself.
Pre-17th century it didn't exist because "trade" and "money" does not a capitalist society make.
If the modern United States is a capitalist society, then social democracy (like the nordic model) or some hypothetical state with UBI is also capitalist. Heck, a state with strong unions might be more capitalist than the United States.
On post-scarcity capitalism: just because the prices of goods collapse away to nearly nothing, it doesn't mean that it's impossible to accumulate wealth. What "wealth" is just stops being yachts & jewelry, and starts being more focused on real estate & artistic patronage.
Post scarcity capitalism is a contradiction in terms, because capitalism needs scarcity to exist. Where scarcity does not exist, it will create scarcity. That's a big reason why people starve even as we make food enough for 10 billion people and people go homeless in America even as we have millions of vacant homes.
Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:26 am
Every economic system needs scarcity to exist... Producing and trading is literally about someone having something, that someone else needs or wants.
Really? Because everyone having the ability to have their needs and wants met in abundance sounds like it makes communism simple to achieve. From each according to his ability to each according to their need is much easier when you don't have to ration anything.
