Babylon 5: Believers

[animalia]

Or teach the kid to say "My mom and dad are dead, and they're from [different part of planet name]" and nobody would ever know, and thus continue to treat him exactly like everyone else. This is why I say that Franklin wasn't wrong in what he did, he was wrong in not finding out about the consequences and being more drastic in his actions.

Didn't the kid *also* say he was against the procedure?

[CharlesPhipps]

Or teach the kid to say "My mom and dad are dead, and they're from [different part of planet name]" and nobody would ever know, and thus continue to treat him exactly like everyone else. This is why I say that Franklin wasn't wrong in what he did, he was wrong in not finding out about the consequences and being more drastic in his actions.

I mean, Franklin was wrong because he wanted to be praised for doing it, kidnapped the kid, and broke all sorts of laws to do it without thinking it through. A smarter doctor would have looked for something else to do to save the kid like going around surgery or just fucking lying.

[Madner Kami]

Or teach the kid to say "My mom and dad are dead, and they're from [different part of planet name]" and nobody would ever know, and thus continue to treat him exactly like everyone else. This is why I say that Franklin wasn't wrong in what he did, he was wrong in not finding out about the consequences and being more drastic in his actions.

Didn't the kid *also* say he was against the procedure?

Oh good, because we always adhere to the whims and wishes of children, when it comes to their health...

[animalia]

Or teach the kid to say "My mom and dad are dead, and they're from [different part of planet name]" and nobody would ever know, and thus continue to treat him exactly like everyone else. This is why I say that Franklin wasn't wrong in what he did, he was wrong in not finding out about the consequences and being more drastic in his actions.

Didn't the kid *also* say he was against the procedure?

Oh good, because we always adhere to the whims and wishes of children, when it comes to their health...

My point was that I could see going against the parent's wishes if the kid felt differently. But that was not the case here.

[Madner Kami]

The kid behaved and felt that way, because his parents informed his actions. There's good reason for why we don't treat children as if they were fully responsible adults.

[Deledrius]

The kid behaved and felt that way, because his parents informed his actions. There's good reason for why we don't treat children as if they were fully responsible adults.

Exactly, all that does is tangle the issue up even more. It's impossible to get a proper informed consent at all in this situation from anyone.

[Frustration]

IIRC, the child stated that he didn't want to die, but he didn't want the procedure.

Informed Consent was most certainly possible in this situation. It was withheld. Doctor went ahead anyway. That violation of medical ethics was the thing he could have gotten in trouble over with Earthforce; a real-world equivalent situation would probably result with the doctor losing their license, if the medical establishment chose to actually acknowledge the situation. (You'd be horrified at how infrequently they do.)

[CrypticMirror]

Children raised in a cult cannot give informed consent, because they lack the opposing voices that make critical reasoning possible. That is what this kid was raised in, a death cult. Franklin was still right to do what he did, but wrong not to do further research in order to prevent a needless later death. With some rehabilitative care, that kid could have led a rich full life.

[Frustration]

People raised in mainstream society cannot give consent, because that society's opinions on reality are constantly being presented to them as truth.

What a convenient belief that is! We can adapt it to permit ourselves to ignore any position or opinion we'd prefer not to deal with!

[animalia]

People raised in mainstream society cannot give consent, because that society's opinions on reality are constantly being presented to them as truth.

What a convenient belief that is! We can adapt it to permit ourselves to ignore any position or opinion we'd prefer not to deal with!

Rimshot