TNG: The First Duty

This forum is for discussing Chuck's videos as they are publicly released. And for bashing Neelix, but that's just repeating what I already said.
bronnt
Officer
Posts: 362
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by bronnt »

Morgaine wrote: No, the part that ruined BSG was the insipid and completely out of character luddite fly our ships into the sun return to the bronze age ending that came out of nowhere, with Lee Adama suddenly and for no reason proclaiming that Colonial technology, history and culture is unecessary and they must "give themselves" to the natives of Earth (and given the whole mitochondrial eve scenario they came up with and given how human tribes behaved in actual history towards rival tribes, that has.... unfortunate implications).
Because of course the best way to never repeat your mistakes is to forget them.

The Colonial fleet and every character within was established as independent and divisive. They would argue and rebel over the most petty of things and yet all of them from the military to the medical staff to the goddamn mobsters would all universally agree to eschew what little comforts and technology they have because Lee has a religious epiphany? Give me a break!.
Yeah. That's where the plot and the characters essentially diverged. Because Ron Moore and/or David Eick felt that they owed it to the fans to plan something out in advance (they wouldn't pull too much completely out of their ass) but they had no idea how to create a plot that built up to the ending idea. The end result is that the final thoughts of the characters were at odds with every lesson they had learned on the journey.

That's one of many little issues with the finale, of course, which had several other problems. The main issue is that they left way too many plot threads dangling: Baltar and the opera house, Tori, Starbuck, Hera. It was too much to wrap up in one story and really needed a multi-episode arc like DS9 had to get all of those points resolved.

But the reason everyone hates the BSG finale is largely because the series itself is so fantastically good, and feels very seamless in terms of plot and character development, up until you run over the cliff at the end.
RobbyB1982
Captain
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:38 pm

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by RobbyB1982 »

bronnt wrote: But the reason everyone hates the BSG finale is largely because the series itself is so fantastically good, and feels very seamless in terms of plot and character development, up until you run over the cliff at the end.
Not counting the late series Cylon reveals that just make zero sense and are also way too convenient and main character on the main ship oriented.
ChiggyvonRichthofen
Captain
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:40 am

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by ChiggyvonRichthofen »

It is Lee who comes up with the idea to abandon technology and everyone does go along with it, but I still consider that to be a failure of plot rather than a failure of character. Lee doesn't say that stuff because his character has been changed, he's only saying it because the plot demands it.
bronnt wrote: But the reason everyone hates the BSG finale is largely because the series itself is so fantastically good, and feels very seamless in terms of plot and character development, up until you run over the cliff at the end.
I agree. Although I do think some problems develop starting in season 3, it's a victim of its own standards when it comes to the subpar finale. They could have easily come up with a by-the-numbers, mediocre finale that would have been better received, but it was always ambitious and attempting to break new ground. Sometimes it didn't work, but by and large I think the quality of craft going into BSG is simply a cut above most shows.

As for The First Duty, I would have a hard time really faulting any of the endings. I can't really think of any character traits or moments with Wesley before this episode that I would consider to be actually interesting. Having him choose not to rat out his friends might not have been in character, but given the way Wesley was portrayed up until this point, having him make any mistake isn't really in character.
The owls are not what they seem.
User avatar
CharlesPhipps
Captain
Posts: 4938
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by CharlesPhipps »

I rarely agree with Star Trek justice but I think what happened was fair. Even lenient.
Shuboy07
Officer
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:53 am

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by Shuboy07 »

I am currently really enjoying Outlander but I feel that Moore largely picked this series to write and produce because he's adapting an existing work. Given the grief he's still getting over BSG, Moore is doing Outlander as a breather show.

Getting back to the Nick Locarno/Tom Paris issue, Naren Shankar pointed out Locarno is also the name of a city (in Switzerland). So Michael Piller or Jeri Taylor used the same name scheme with a common first name paired with a European city surname.
User avatar
Madner Kami
Captain
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:35 pm

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by Madner Kami »

Shuboy07 wrote:I am currently really enjoying Outlander but I feel that Moore largely picked this series to write and produce because he's adapting an existing work. Given the grief he's still getting over BSG, Moore is doing Outlander as a breather show.

Getting back to the Nick Locarno/Tom Paris issue, Naren Shankar pointed out Locarno is also the name of a city (in Switzerland). So Michael Piller or Jeri Taylor used the same name scheme with a common first name paired with a European city surname.
Hehe, had the same thought. And it only further emphasizes the headcanon, which still says: Same person, just a cover-name to not have to deal with issues arising from "My daddy is the Admiral!".
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
Fuzzy Necromancer
Overlord
Posts: 6311
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:57 am

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by Fuzzy Necromancer »

I really appreciate that the first duty is to the TRUTH. Like, it's not to team, to nation, to ideals, but to the actual, confirmed, reality that exists. That's...that's something I really long for these days.
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by Karha of Honor »

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:I really appreciate that the first duty is to the TRUTH. Like, it's not to team, to nation, to ideals, but to the actual, confirmed, reality that exists. That's...that's something I really long for these days.
I concluded that democracy is a dead end. I am certain. We should be slaves or warriors in the Klingon Society. A superior society more fit to thrive in a chaotic galaxy.
Image
Fuzzy Necromancer
Overlord
Posts: 6311
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:57 am

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by Fuzzy Necromancer »

...um, what the fuck?
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: TNG: The First Duty

Post by Karha of Honor »

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:...um, what the fuck?
That could be an end conclusion...
Image
Post Reply