(ST Ent) Why so much hate for the Temporal Cold War?

[Frustration]

Extra-canonical works have established that Vulcans have an unfortunate tendency to be conformist and intolerant. Which isn't surprising, since many human cultures are like that. "The nail that stands up gets hammered down."

Spock was different in an important and notable way. So he faced overt rejection from children, and more subtle rejection from adults who had developed more subtle ways to inflict pain.

[Makeshift Python]

I don't mind the concept of a temporal cold war, but it was pretty clear that Berman and Braga really had no interest in delving into it. If you look back at the first two seasons, they barely make up a fraction of the episodes, because Berman wanted to stick to making episodic television.

[Beastro]

Extra-canonical works have established that Vulcans have an unfortunate tendency to be conformist and intolerant. Which isn't surprising, since many human cultures are like that. "The nail that stands up gets hammered down."

Spock was different in an important and notable way. So he faced overt rejection from children, and more subtle rejection from adults who had developed more subtle ways to inflict pain.

People need to realize logic and reason are not a single lane street. There are many approaches to something that are both, but we like to assume our way is THE one and others are irrational (which clouds thing when people are irrational).

Vulcans I'd say take this to an extreme and think they'd dispassionate approach is logic in definition. That makes for strong conforming pressure which ties into the allusions of them as being analogous with the Japanese in the Cold War.

There's also the fact that logic informs emotional response in actual people. You cannot operate with pure logic in the same way a bullet cannot be fired without gunpowder. People who have brain damage to the emotional regions of their brain do not become Vulcans, they become near catatonic and unable to act in the world. We needs that something to set things in motion that logic then adds to like rifling does to the a bullet in the barrel of a gun.

With the Vulcans it would be one thing if they had humility and admitted they are emotional, but are wary of it and seek to keep it under control, but they always try to come off as purely detached and completely lacking in it that makes them hypocrites when it's clear how much emotion drives their actions. That is a big part of the humour around Spock where we know he is being emotional making a wry comment or action by trying to come off as the unfunny stoic.

and kids are racist if they're bullying over race.

They usually get it from their parents.

Kids in my experience are reaching for anything to throw at other kids to hurt them. Skin colour is on display so it's an easy stone to reach for.

I know. I was very, very pale compared to even the other white kids growing up and was the one bullied for his skin colour more than anyone else in elementary. Not the African in my class, nor the Sri Lankan (who was so dark he looked African), or the El Salvadoran, not even the pack of East Indians got it like I did. I didn't care and got a kick out of it because I knew where it came from. It wasn't personal, just like me poking fun at the French girl finding my targets of opportunity.

In fact, thanks to McCoy, I remember humans being racist towards Vulcans more than anything else. Kirk should really not have let those two act like that in public, or even in private while in uniform either, but product of its time. I guess.

The thing is it was expressed in an endearing way. Push comes to shove McCoy was probably more loyal to Spock than anyone save Kirk. It's something I don't think many can understand in recent generations.

It reminds me of a veteran I know. His unit got sent to an event in Quebec. We're Western Canadians and Quebecers have a known prejudice towards us (which is mutual). My dad was a trucker and suffered from it all the time doing business in Quebec having to wait unnecessarily long as they'd fuck with him, for instance.

During this event one night the one Native guy in their unit went to the bathroom and got beat up by several Quebecers from another unit. The next day they found him knocked out in the bathroom stall and reported it to the base commander who did nothing with talk going around asking why care about some dirty, good for nothing Indian. The next night they went through the Quebec barracks and cleaned house beating up everyone in it.

After that they were told to leave and stood at attention outside their plane to be seen off by the base commander. They went through the usual routine before the vet I know who was the top NCO stood before the base commander. The base commander saluted and the vet instead gave him the finger before turning around and getting on the plane yelling "Yeah, he's a dirty, good for nothing Indian - he's our dirty, good for nothing Indian!". Once everyone in the unit was seated every window had a middle finger in it. Nothing bad happened to them and the base commander got in deep shit being reassigned to some ass end assignment within the year.

One might say that kinda talk shouldn't be, be you can see where their loyalties lay.

[Madner Kami]

Yup, ribbing is something people do, when they are close to each other and know each other more intimately than an outsider does. What can appear as rude, racist behaviour can be an expression of deep connection between two or more people.

As for Vulcans, they really only are ever interesting to me, when they are played like people who are motivated by their extremely strong emotions and try their best to not be governed by them. A stoic, emotionless Vulcan simply ain't a Vulcan, because Vulcans are defined by their extreme emotions and their attempts to control them, rather than being controlled by them.

[Frustration]

The thing is it was expressed in an endearing way. Push comes to shove McCoy was probably more loyal to Spock than anyone save Kirk. It's something I don't think many can understand in recent generations.

It makes perfect sense to me. People who are very close to each other not only tolerate interactions that would be profoundly offensive coming from an outsider, but actively engage in them. Spock constantly denigrating McCoy for being emotional and passionate, and McCoy ragging on Spock for being rational and dispassionate, is a sign of affection.

Plus, Spock takes it as a backhanded compliment when McCoy complains about how Vulcan-y he's acting, since Vulcan-y is precisely what he's going for. Given that, at home, people would be covertly bigoted against what they imagine is his human heritage, he finds it refreshing to be 'condemned' for being the ideal Vulcan!

Whether such speech is insulting depends on the perception of the recipient. If they were real people, I wouldn't dare say to Spock the things McCoy does, because I'm not saying them in the context of a deep friendship.

[Beastro]

The thing is it was expressed in an endearing way. Push comes to shove McCoy was probably more loyal to Spock than anyone save Kirk. It's something I don't think many can understand in recent generations.

It makes perfect sense to me. People who are very close to each other not only tolerate interactions that would be profoundly offensive coming from an outsider, but actively engage in them. Spock constantly denigrating McCoy for being emotional and passionate, and McCoy ragging on Spock for being rational and dispassionate, is a sign of affection.

It's very cultural context dependent.

I know some people from a Far Eastern culture who really do not like Western sarcasm and teasing of those you are close to. To them, you give those close to you even more respect that you'd otherwise give others and sarcasm is never a good thing, it is always harmful and mean.

... doesn't stop me from being sarcastic and teasing to them. I think I'm rubbing off on them~

[Frustration]

Sarcasm often has a third layer, beside the overt and covert meanings. And respect has many forms.

[Zargon]

The worst thing about the whole Temporal Cold War is that everything that happened in Enterprise is now not what "really" happened. It is what happened BECAUSE of the temporal cold war. Just about the whole show was a historical mess because of time travel.

Too many times the "future folks" solved the problems, while the Enterprise folks just sat around to be told what to do.

And it really makes you wonder about the real, original time line. The time line that has the Sulivan NOT get super powers from their Future Friend. Without the ton of time travel muck......how does Broken Bow happen?

How is Earth saved without the Future Friend saving them? Without future help, Earth has NO WAY of finding out the Xindi sent the Death Star, right? So in the no help time line the Xindi Death Star just blows up Earth, right?

Of course Time Travel is a HUGE problem for Star Trek. As in, why does not any alien race...or individual for that matter, not just ALTER the whole REALITY on a whim. We see it happen WAY, WAY, WAY too often. Would not some Klingons or Fergingi "accidentally" go back in time and CONQUER THE WHOLE UNIVERSE?