Eternals: Marvel's lowest rated film to date

[Frustration]

Yes. What's your point?

[Winter]

I have a much better understanding of both that word's technical definition, and the various ways people understand it, than you do, Winter.

One of the biggest problems with it is that people tend to associate a negative meaning to it, then insist that the things they approve of can't be propaganda because they're not bad or wrong.

That's a form of delusion.

The Swastika was not a Nazi original design, it's actually translated from old Indian text by German scholars. The Nazi's later used it has their symbol and thus the meaning of the symbol changed and is now synonymous with the hate group. Meaning in words and symbols change, often for stupid reasons but they change.

Geronimo is the name of a man but is used by Army paratroopers before jumping to show they had no fear of jumping thousands of feet in the air. Literally is used as a means of punctuation instead of how it's suppose to be used. And, as you pointed out, Propaganda has been used in a negative context for so long that the idea of it being viewed as anything else is silly.

Triumph of the Will, Captain Planet, Richard III and Macbeth are all pieces that are the go to examples of propaganda and that is not going to change and therefore it is not delusional to view the term propaganda in a negative light. It be like someone saying they want to use the Swastika as their party symbol because what it originally means matches their ideals and that viewing it in a negative context due to it's association with the Nazis is silly.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm point out how views have changed which you yourself just pointed out.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Is The Lord of the Rings Propaganda?

Technically, 'propaganda' can include data about objective facts. But we tend not to use the word to refer to that sort of information, because even in these days we retain a vestigial sense that truth is objective and objective reality can be known.

So, let's limit ourselves to subjective opinion. Did Tolkien intent his novels to change the opinions of the people who read them?

Yes, obviously. Especially since one of the topics that the novels have a position on is that there are such things as corrupt and noble forms of persuasion, and that using skill and knowledge to manipulate people's emotional reactions callously and without respect for their reason and actual truth, is a form of evil.

Tolkien wasn't trying to deceive, in the sense that he seems to have held the beliefs he was illustrating to be true and valid. But any work of literature involves the attempt to affect the readers' emotions, 'manipulating' them if you like, to feel certain things in association with certain situations. That's an inherent part of storytelling.

So yes, they can be considered a form of propaganda.

Illustrating a particular relationship between people without drawing attention to it doesn't make a work any less propagandistic. It may make it more effective as propaganda than if the intended moral was explicit.

But you can say the same thing about Eternals as far as what I saw in the movie.

[hammerofglass]

I have a much better understanding of both that word's technical definition, and the various ways people understand it, than you do, Winter.

One of the biggest problems with it is that people tend to associate a negative meaning to it, then insist that the things they approve of can't be propaganda because they're not bad or wrong.

That's a form of delusion.

The Swastika was not a Nazi original design, it's actually translated from old Indian text by German scholars. The Nazi's later used it has their symbol and thus the meaning of the symbol changed and is now synonymous with the hate group. Meaning in words and symbols change, often for stupid reasons but they change.

Geronimo is the name of a man but is used by Army paratroopers before jumping to show they had no fear of jumping thousands of feet in the air. Literally is used as a means of punctuation instead of how it's suppose to be used. And, as you pointed out, Propaganda has been used in a negative context for so long that the idea of it being viewed as anything else is silly.

Triumph of the Will, Captain Planet, Richard III and Macbeth are all pieces that are the go to examples of propaganda and that is not going to change and therefore it is not delusional to view the term propaganda in a negative light. It be like someone saying they want to use the Swastika as their party symbol because what it originally means matches their ideals and that viewing it in a negative context due to it's association with the Nazis is silly.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm point out how views have changed which you yourself just pointed out.

That is still the original meaning, though. The negative connotation is because people only call it out when The Other Guy does it and not when Our Side does, not any objection to the actual practice of persuasive communication.

Just refusing to call it propaganda when people you agree with do it is itself propaganda.

[Frustration]

The Swastika was not a Nazi original design, it's actually translated from old Indian text by German scholars.

"Translated from text"? It's a symbol, in active use by Hindus and Sikhs, with a rotated but related form used by several Southwestern Native American tribes.

I don't know if you have problems with English, or are using the language correctly to express crazy ideas.

[hammerofglass]

You know that kind of bullying tone just makes you look insecure, right?

[Frustration]

Now that's a nice and blatant attempt to manipulate people's emotions. Usually people try to be more subtle than that, but you went straight out.

[hammerofglass]

Now that's a nice and blatant attempt to manipulate people's emotions. Usually people try to be more subtle than that, but you went straight out.

I am informing you your fly is down. Everyone else has already made their own judgements. Do with that information as you will.

[Frustration]

If we don't point out incoherent and nonsensical posts, we have no one but ourselves to blame when discussions degrade into incoherence and nonsense.

Hey, whatever gets you to sleep at night, man.

[hammerofglass]

Winter's an adult, if she's offended I'm sure she'll tell you.

I just wish somebody had told me how I was coming off when I talked like that in my New Atheist phase, is all. You do you.