Lower Decks - "Moist Vessel"

[Deledrius]

It's not just Rick and Morty, they're just the biggest and latest incarnation of this slow evolution. Cartoon Network, College Humor, they've all thrived on pushing "wouldn't it be funny if" gags that work as a one-off bit of commentary, but don't function as a sustained work.

Making canon the extreme absurdist elements illustrates the flaw in the comedy, not the original thing being satired, but it has the unfortunate side effect of making that failure canon as well.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's not just Rick and Morty, they're just the biggest and latest incarnation of this slow evolution. Cartoon Network, College Humor, they've all thrived on pushing "wouldn't it be funny if" gags that work as a one-off bit of commentary, but don't function as a sustained work.

Making canon the extreme absurdist elements illustrates the flaw in the comedy, not the original thing being satired, but it has the unfortunate side effect of making that failure canon as well.

I think that is only a failure if the audience for some reason insists upon strict continuity and not embraces the absurdism as part of the comedy.

As for failure, is the audience entertained?

Then it has succeeded.

[Madner Kami]

I think that is only a failure if the audience for some reason insists upon strict continuity and not embraces the absurdism as part of the comedy.

"For some reason"? Like, really? I mean, why do you watch a franchise-show? Most everyone does watch them precisely because of the continuity.

As for failure, is the audience entertained?

Then it has succeeded.

This is a remarkably low bar to clear and surprisingly exlcusive coming from your mouth, though you've displayed a remarkable amount of disdain for people who disagree with you recently anyways. The audience or at least a part of it being entertained is very simple, because people are entertained by a wide variety of things, often mutually exclusive things. When you are doing a franchise-show though, your audience however isn't "everyone", your target audience is or should be the audience of the franchise and as pointed out, continuity is an integral part of any franchise.

[CharlesPhipps]

"For some reason"? Like, really? I mean, why do you watch a franchise-show? Most everyone does watch them precisely because of the continuity.

People watched episodic TV and Star Trek in particular for decades before strict continuity.

This is a remarkably low bar to clear and surprisingly exlcusive coming from your mouth, though you've displayed a remarkable amount of disdain for people who disagree with you recently anyways. The audience or at least a part of it being entertained is very simple, because people are entertained by a wide variety of things, often mutually exclusive things. When you are doing a franchise-show though, your audience however isn't "everyone", your target audience is or should be the audience of the franchise and as pointed out, continuity is an integral part of any franchise.

I don't have any disdain for people who disagree with me. It's an opinion about a show. Good, bad or indifferent is all in the eyes of the beholder. Lower Decks is entertaining with likable characters, a genuine love of Star Trek, quite a bit of continuity [which makes the fact that I don't think continuity is the 100% biggest thing people love ironic], and a idealistic optimistic view of the Federation that feels like a breath of fresh air. I think it's easily the best thing to come out of Star Trek since Deep Space Nine with it better than Voyager and Enterprise both.

I CARE for these characters. Which is an impressive achievement.

However, I don't think a TV show has any obligation beyond entertaining the audience. Its the bare minimum even if Lower Decks exceeds this by light years.

Mind you, I also think part of the issue with the Paramount streaming Trek is the fact they're NOT aimed at hardcore fans (except for Lower Decks--which absolutely is and is immensely popular with them) but new audiences or the more casual fan. Prodigy exists to create a new generation of Trek fans and its suceeding

My wife never watched Star Trek before Lower Decks and now has watched TNG and Deep Space Nine because of it.

[Deledrius]

It's not just Rick and Morty, they're just the biggest and latest incarnation of this slow evolution. Cartoon Network, College Humor, they've all thrived on pushing "wouldn't it be funny if" gags that work as a one-off bit of commentary, but don't function as a sustained work.

Making canon the extreme absurdist elements illustrates the flaw in the comedy, not the original thing being satired, but it has the unfortunate side effect of making that failure canon as well.

I think that is only a failure if the audience for some reason insists upon strict continuity and not embraces the absurdism as part of the comedy.

As for failure, is the audience entertained?

Then it has succeeded.

I wasn't talking about "success" in that general sense. I think it's been pretty successful, clearly, but that's not the point I was making about a specific kind of flaw. You're arguing semantics with an assertion I wasn't making. But go ahead. I'm enjoying both shows right now, and so are a lot of other people, in spite of this issue (and TBH LD isn't nearly as bad with it as things that go into it with both feet like Rick and Morty).

[Madner Kami]

However, I don't think a TV show has any obligation beyond entertaining the audience. Its the bare minimum even if Lower Decks exceeds this by light years.

I don't see whether you just can't grasp the concept or ignore it on purpose. "A" TV show has no obligations beyond entertaining whatever audience it's made for or whatever audience ends up watching it. A TV-show within in an existing franchise however, should do that, too yes, but it has the added obligation to primiarily entertain the fans of the franchise. Because if your target-audience is just "whoever it concerns", then just create your show, but don't call it "Franchise-name". If you add a name to it, people come with certain expectations. You're not going to expect a bicycle, when you want go shopping for Harley-Davidson.

[TGLS]

However, I don't think a TV show has any obligation beyond entertaining the audience. Its the bare minimum even if Lower Decks exceeds this by light years.

I don't see whether you just can't grasp the concept or ignore it on purpose. "A" TV show has no obligations beyond entertaining whatever audience it's made for or whatever audience ends up watching it. A TV-show within in an existing franchise however, should do that, too yes, but it has the added obligation to primiarily entertain the fans of the franchise.

I dunno. I don't think anyone would say Star Trek Prodigy is intended to entertain the existing Star Trek fans. Just like Stargate Infinity.

[Madner Kami]

Why is it "Star Trek" then or "Stargate" for that matter?

[TGLS]

Same source material, different markets.

[CharlesPhipps]

However, I don't think a TV show has any obligation beyond entertaining the audience. Its the bare minimum even if Lower Decks exceeds this by light years.

I don't see whether you just can't grasp the concept or ignore it on purpose. "A" TV show has no obligations beyond entertaining whatever audience it's made for or whatever audience ends up watching it. A TV-show within in an existing franchise however, should do that, too yes, but it has the added obligation to primiarily entertain the fans of the franchise. Because if your target-audience is just "whoever it concerns", then just create your show, but don't call it "Franchise-name". If you add a name to it, people come with certain expectations. You're not going to expect a bicycle, when you want go shopping for Harley-Davidson.

No, I understand your point I just disagree. I believe, in fact, that franchises that expand beyond what an existing franchise is believed to be are essential to the health and growth of a franchise.